AIBU to “insist” on communicating with my wife?

[TheOtherSide]

Times are stressful at the moment. Sprog 1, 3.5yo & sprog 2 1yo. My wife & I are always arguing. Any topic is fair game from what to watch on TV through to Money, shopping, weather etc etc.

My Wife has found a new coping strategy – its called “Just ignore him”, state your feelings & walk away. Instead of arguing, ignore him and spend your time productively browsing the web or playing computer games. This irritates me, resolves nothing and has been going on for months.

We have blazing rows and either....

1. I follow her around the house and attempt to communicate – I'm then accused of being a stalker.
   

1. We ignore & avoid each other – about a week later she pretends that everything is ok and nothing happened.
   

I'm working away from home during the week for the next couple of months. I got home on Thursday night about 9pm and tried to engage her in non controversial casual conversation, e.g. check out this funny clip of a toddler on FB. She tried to ignore me and then had a massive go at me for wasting her time and went to bed.

I have suggested “Marriage Guidance” but this was poo poohed as she felt that last time the councillor sided with me. I arranged a course of sessions with a different organisation, and hence different counsellor, but she still refused to go. She then suggested that I attend on my own.

Key points...

a. I can't see how the marriage is going to survive/progress if we can't communicate.
b. If we didn't have kids then i'd gladly walk/run right now but we do so I will not.
c. I/we need to find a way forward

...any ideas?

Thanks.

[happyfrogger]

OP, you have my sympathies - your post could have been written by my husband and I think you have been given an unreasonably hard time here.

I am that miserable wife with the 2 small kids (3 and 18 months) we are both in crazy full time jobs, renovating a house and general breakdown in communication.

I hope that you find a strategy to turn things around and improve the day to day as you emerge from the gruelling years, I know because I feel the same. Life is flipping hard and exhausting and the sum of all this grinds many us down at this life stage. You are not alone, but some of us handle the hard times worse than others. I too can be the one who ignores, or shouts, or tries - depending on exactly how awful my day is, how tired I am etc. the unfortunate part is when this behaviour becomes habitual and we stop showing respect and start showing contempt. When the morning and bedtime kiss is forgone, when the smiles and eye contact is lacking. These small things I have found are vital for checking in and keeping that even keel, and we are busy trying to reverse this bad habit too.

I am amazed at the number of people who are supportive of a quick exit and I really support your efforts to seek counciling and get things back on track. I'm sorry I have come along with a suggestion but I wanted to say I hope you can find a way through with some everyday changes.

I don't think you sound stalking or anything like that, you sound understandably frustrated. I don't think your wife sounds depressed, just having a busy, full and bloody exhausting life when entertaining small talk is likely to 'piss her off'. I get that, these are the reflexes that she needs support to work out of. It will take time. She could be stubborn. I get that.

Please don't give up. Remember the core of your relationship and why you chose to be together.

[Golfhotelromeofoxtrot]

You only mention right at the end that she has depression; did you not think it was very important? What do you think of the diagnosis? Are you trying to specifically support her in her recovery?

What kinds of things are you arguing about when you follow her round the house? Mundane trivial things like the TV, or big important things? I believe you need to separate things worth arguing about and things you just need to let go, if you want to save your relationship.

I think going to a forum that her use of appears to make you resentful, is quite a rude thing to do. There are loads of other forums that offer similar advice. Or go and talk to your friends. Go and speak to a therapist like she suggested.

[Iggly]

I think the reaction to the OP is - he's been stone walled etc and (earlier upthread) there was an assumption that the DW was a SAHM when actually they both work.

OP - you need to ask your DW to make time to talk when suits her. Then no excuses for her to walk off or ignore.

I commend you staying for the kids - not bailing out - but your dcs will pick up that you both aren't happy.

[PeaceOfWildThings]

TheOtherSide living with someone with depression is a big challenge. The normal rules of engagement are different. She is ill. Did she go to the counselling sessions provided? Is she taking the anti-depressants, and are they helping? It can take a while to get the right dose and some people need to try different ADs before they find one that works for them. She might need some support to go back to the doctor and discuss getting a higher dose or trying out a different AD.

She is doing the best she can. You have young children. There is no place for arguments in your home, no need for shouting etc. You are both using defensive behaviours to cope, and if she won't go to joint counselling, both of you go to individual counselling. You could even book 1.5 hour slots and each have a separate 45 minutes with the same counsellor.

[happyfrogger]

ItsRaining - great posts.

[MorrisZapp]

My DP uses the 'dump and run' communication technique too but as I'm a woman no doubt I'd be told it's his action that's abusive, not mine.

What op actually said was that his wife says her peice then walks off, leaving OP to either follow her to defend himself or put up with what he sees are unfounded criticisms or attacks.

I fucking hate it when DP does this. It's like he wants to offload his anger and frustration on me but won't let me have a say or defend myself.

I gurantee if I started a thread about this tactic I wouldn't be told to stop stalking him or to tell him what a fantastic job he's doing as a father.

Huge, huge double standards on here.

[Grumpyoldbiddy]

My DH does this at times, says his piece then walks away. If I have a different view he accuses me of starting an argument.
It's a strategy to control the situation and it's disrespectful.
I don't know what the answer isbut I got past a few posts telling you that you are wrong and wanted to say that I understand

[OhEmGeee]

Thank god the more recent posts have appeared, that are actually helpful and not just attacking the OP because he's a man.

ItsRaining certainly sums up a lot for me right now, with two small DC.

[Grumpyoldbiddy]

That said, your more recent posts don't present you in such a good light.

[FenellaFellorick]

Sounds like a very unhappy situation, OP.
I think that spending a lot of time locked in your own world can be a symptom not a cause. Do you think that you are having problems because she is on mn a lot, doesn't chat with you and appears petmenantly irritated by you or do you think that because you two have problems she goes on mn a lot, doesn't chat with you and is irritated by everything you do?

I don't believe that because you are a man you are automatically in the wrong. I don't know either of you and I don't know your relationship. I'm just responding to what you are saying.

If someone won't talk then you are helpless. You can't solve problems by yourself.

But you can look at yourself and see where you can make changes. Are you communicating effectively? When you follow her round trying to talk, what is it you want to say? Is it I love you, I want us to be happy again, is there any way we can have that... or is it critical and demanding, pointing out things you think she ought to change?

I think going to counselling by yourself would be an excellent idea. It would enable you to get things clear in your head, analyse your behaviour, understand whats going on and work out how best to go forward.

[crazytyke]

re the Internet video, my DH does this and it drives me mad.

I just think why the duck are you watching stupid pointless videos while I'm still doing the washing / sorting the kids etc

[FenellaFellorick]

Meant to say, we are all responsible for our own behaviour. You aren't responsible for hers so you can only look to yourself and make changes that will make you happy.

[AlternativeTentacles]

OP - what happens when you return from your working away?

Take us through it step by step. What do you do when you get home?

Could you please do it in less dismissive language than you have to date?

Ta

[Orange6358]

It must be really hard for her working 4 days and looking after the kids while you are away all while depressed.

OP can you give an example of how your discussions/arguments develop.

[WayneRooneysHair]

Fucking hell Mumsnet.

Is it any wonder that the OP was getting more and more pissed off given the responses he was getting?

His wife sounds immature, the last thing I'd be doing is hugging her and telling her how much I love her, dumping and running would drive me to the edge.

Maybe the counsellor has a point and she refuses to admit it.

[NinkyNonkers]

A key point would be what were all these arguments about?

[ApignamedJasper]

Maybe OP tries to show his DW the internet videos because she is snappy and irritable and he is slightly walking on eggshells trying to find light, casual things to talk about that won't piss her off and that seems like a safe, neutral thing to open the lines of conversation?

[Moln]

The OP's posts were more 'aggresive' near the end because he got backed into a virtual corner by other aggressive posters having a oh at him for being a man frightened of losing his children.

OP I can recognise this dynamic in a relationship.

Neither of you are approaching the problem well, you wife appears to be angry/upset and doesn't want to hear your opinion, possibly because she knows she's angry/upset and doesn't know why (depression will make this worse). Though you mention the wealthy mother bailing her out and I wonder if she bailed her out always and your wife never learnt coping skills and simple doesn't know HOW to communicate her feelings.

You sound as if you just want to aggressively persue the problem and solve it (i.e. following her around arguing). It's not going to work like that I'm afraid. It's going to take a while and won't go away just like that if she does talk.

You need to find out what the problem actually is (in my case it was my husbands drinking, even I didn't realise the extent I hated him for being controlled by alcohol and it took me a good six months after he stopped to start feeling able to let go of the angry and start repairing the damage done to the relationship)

Obviously you can find then problem unless she talks. You need to ask without angry or accusations what she wants to do. Tell her you love her, and you want the relationship to work (assuming you do) but you both cannot continue to live like this, and you fear how it will affect your children carrying on like this (take it from the angle of it bring about them and not about you, all self concern needs to be removed from this).

You can do this in a letter or by talking to her. If you speak to her you need to be calm and at a time where there are no distractions or when she isn't doing something.

I hope you come back and genuine. MN is a great place for advice, it sure does involve some harsh posters (more so towards male posters it seems) but there are others who aren't.

[youarekiddingme]

I'm glad some later posts are supportive - and are from people like myself who've been in this situation.

I can see it from both sides.

I've been the DP working and in my case, doing most childcare. DP had his football and a social life - I didn't. He was the one who'd walk away at the hint of any attempts to communicate how utterly miserable I was. It made me feel worse.
One evening I just totally lost it and yelled at him about why I felt trapped, his needing to put 50% in and more 'us' time rather than 'him' time. I told him I was fucking miserable.
He did make an effort - we had a meal out. But that was it. He never made an effort unless I pointed out I'd had enough and when I made an effort he was always late, playing football or on play station. He'd clearly checked out.

So I checked out too. Began making a life of my own - began to stop enabling his life (eg taking him to football - he didn't drive).

Eventually he cheated and tried to blame me for checking out of relationship and lack of sex. That was true but I wasn't having sex with a man who was so obviously only making an effort for sex. He wasn't subtle about it! It was the constant obvious effort that pushed me further away rather than a natural effort if that makes sense?

So I'm wondering if that's what's happened here. She feels you've checked out and now done the same?
My advice would be to ask how her day has been and if there is anything you can do instead of showing her random FB videos. My guess is there's some staleness if the conversation needs to centre around FB?
Can you book her a voucher for a few hours at a spa? Just ask her what she's been up to. No pressure, no counselling, no following her around - just positive communication when she's engaging.

Fwiw I think you sound caring and the marriage counselling shows you want to sort it. But as much as you think you can hide the fact your sorting it for your kids she'll pick up on that.

You may find that once you stop all the forced unnatural effort you'll rediscover what it is you love about each other.

When I'd kicked DP out he started making an honest effort. I saw a side of him I hadn't seen for a long time. For me though it was too late.

Good luck.

[BeCool]

OP I'm also wondering why you didn't mention her depression in your detailed opening post. It seemed very evident that she is depressed.

Was she diagnosed with PND? Is she taking the anti-d's? How did the prescribed counselling affect her?

Have you done any research into depression and living with someone suffering from depression? Clearly a p's depressing will impact on the whole family. It clearly isn't at all nice to live with but I really don't think your attempts to fix her/situation are either supportive or helpful.

Also you do seem to be quite dismissive of her diagnosed depression. Don't you believe she is depressed?. All the evidence is quite clear AFAICS

If I was depressed, working and on my own all week with 2 young dc and my p came home and tried to show me a funny video on his phone - fucking hell I'd not be pleased at all. First thing you want to do us get in her face with something you think is funny? Please rethink that strategy - it leads no where you want to go.

[sneakybollox]

Op, having had pnd twice, I can see that your dw behaviour is a manifestation of the illness. She is working 4 days, you're away from home, she is exhausted plus her illness means she is unable to find or recognise joy in her children/life. This does not preclude you being entitled to a nice life though.
It's tricky because I think right now you're public enemy number 1 and even if you did threaten her with leaving she'd help you pack and hold the door open for you.
Given the communication issue I would suggest you write her a letter about how much you love her, how much you love the family, how amazing a job she is doing despite the depression, how much you want to work through this difficult phase but you need to both put equal effort in to this. So no threats of leaving just basically imploring her to see you both need to work together to move forward. Maybe she needs her medication level assessed? Is it possible you could get her mum on side? Could you speak to her in confidence? Your dw is going to need to acknowledge that her depression is not just her illness, it becomes a family illness.
I am about 2 years out of my pnd which overall lasted about 3.5 years and it sends shivers down my spine to even think about the state of my family when I was at my worst. My dh really came through for me but I know now, after the event, that he was at breaking point himself.
I wish you lots of luck, you've had alot of negative feedback on here but the fact you are here and desperate fir answers I think shows you're made of good stuff.

[NinkyNonkers]

I think posting in what may be her support space was a questionable move and won't have won friends on here tbh.

[cailindana]

As far as I can tell OP, you're staying in this relationship out of a vindictive need not to 'let her win.' You talk about her having made her bed and now having to lie in it (ie she married you so must stay with you) about getting custody of the children as being a 'race' that is loaded in her favour. You sound like you hate her but you won't let her go because you see the children as a prize that she might get instead of you.