To think there are a lot of misconceptions about terminating a pregnancy

[fiveacres]

Obviously, about abortion, which is a contentious issue for some.

I am approaching the third due date of the pregnancy I terminated in the autumn of 2011 at 9 weeks.

I was a very pious sort once, who believed that abortions were morally wrong. i admit that freely. I still do feel that the best option is not to be in that position in the first place.

However, although I do sometimes think about it, I don't regret it. I've been pregnant twice since so it hasn't affected my fertility.

I paid privately. I did not have any counselling - I was undecided when I went for the initial appointment but I have to say it was very much 'assumed' that I wanted to terminate. The record of the abortion is not in my medical file.

You don't have to give a reason, although they did press me to have the implant, which I refused. They did do a scan, which was a bit upsetting.

It did not hurt. I was warned I would bleed a lot but I didn't. My periods came back in 6 weeks.

You are in a room with a LOT of other women after the procedure, which is upsetting.

Other than that, I felt good after having it done, relieved, happy, mainly relieved.

I do have the odd flash of guilt. I wouldn't do it again.

But, I was reading another thread and it crossed my mind a lot of people do not really seem to know what having a termination is like. My experience may be typical or it may not be, I don't know, but it would be interesting to see what the experiences of others are to try to dispel or to address some of the myths that surround this difficult but sometimes necessary issue.

congratulations baby :)

What false accusation did flippinada make?

Are you referring to this:

Winter,lastuser and leedy I appreciate your continued posts on here, and I'm sure many others do too. I'm sure you all know you will never get a straight answer to any of your questions but thank you anyway for trying.

That's not a false accusation.

I think you have possibly gotten your posters mixed up, bashed out something nasty on the keyboard and haven't the decency to admit it.

"you will never get a straight answer to any of your questions"

An accusation that I wasn't answering your questions - which I was. (aside from the one I missed which I answered as soon as it was brought to my attention) Doesn't stop you though. The pro-choicers will keep making those accusations because they have to make out that the pro-lifers are question -dodging women-haters.

I don't know if any of you are aware but the NI Human Rights Commission are conducting a judicial review of the law that governs abortions this month. They are challenging the law in cases of FFA and pregnancy as a result of sexual crime. We are very hopeful that they will win and that will at least be some achievement for us in NI. The case is running from 15th June so keep an eye on the news if you're interested!

That is good news.

There is also a petition: www.abortionrightscampaign.ie/repealthe8th/

Nah, you can't do it, can you? Can't admit that you made a mistake and back down? Go on, try. You might find people might even warm to you a little.

NB flippinada didn't say you weren't answering questions, she said you weren't giving straight answers.

Thanks for the link Sabrinna, I must have missed that upthread. Will take a look.

What mistake? I have no problem admitting a mistake when I actually have.

Do you really think I give a crap whether people 'warm' to me? They never will because I'm an 'evil-pro-lifer'.

You made a mistake in your snide remark to flippinada that you 'couldn't see what she'd contributed to the thread apart from a lie'.

bumbley, there's no need to have a hissy fit about it - this thread wasn't really the place to start the sort of debate you're having - it was for women to share their experiences. As far as I can tell, posters were doing just that until you popped on pushing a pro-life agenda.

There are plenty of debate threads on abortion - why did you have to turn this thread into another one?

Ah but I didn't say 'what she'd contributed to the thread' did I? You're just adding that in.

But just to be clear..

Flippinada, I am sorry if you felt that I was accusing you of not contributing to the thread. That was not my intention. I was specifically talking about your comment to me and how you had engaged with me which included accusing me of not answering questions despite me spending considerable time doing so on the thread.

hissy fit? Where?

I've already explained how I ended up here and it didn't have anything to do with 'pushing a pro-life agenda'. I also remember a lot of pro-choicers turning up on a threads directed specifically at pro-lifers. Why do they turn up there?

This is an exact quote:

Ok Flipp - can't see what you contributed aside from a lie about not answering questions anyway. Have a pleasant evening.

But bualadh bos to you for a grudging apology.

Yes George - nothing about 'to the thread' is there? But I apologised anyway - just in case there was any doubt.

Aren't you 'warming' to me?

Ah, ok. You meant 'contribute to the micro-discussion which I will retrospectively determine' as opposed to 'contribute to the general discussion as this is, you know, a discussion board'.

I'm not warming to you as such, but I grudgingly admire (and am simultaneously repulsed by) your Jesuitical sophistry.

My bubbly tastes great. How is everyone else doing?

I made no mention 'discussion' at all though did I?

I feel so empty inside - no warm fuzzies from George :(

congrats on your baby Baby!!!

Congrats again Baby

Oh dear - can we only use words that bumbley has already used? I must have missed that memo.

Congratulations baby Delighted to your hear your news Also great news about the EU court. Ireland is on the right track.

I didn't see if Bumbly answered the question earlier regarding whether its better to have safe legal abortion rather than back street abortions, on line pills or women taking their own life.
You can say its better to have no abortion but I think we have established abortion will always be needed. Its obvious as so many Irish women travel each day to the UK to have an abortion.

I didn't see if Bumbly answered the question earlier regarding whether its better to have safe legal abortion rather than back street abortions, on line pills or women taking their own life.

I'm paraphrasing, but she pretty much said that she doesn't think many people would resort to back street abortions or killing themselves if they couldn't have safe legal ones, but if some people do she doesn't really care very much. (I'm sure she'll deny this but its all there if anyone cares to check)

Women will never stop wanting abortions.

Women will never stop accessing abortions, whether via legal or illegal means.

Women in countries like Ireland continue to access abortions. In significant numbers. Women in every country in the world, at every point in history have accessed abortions, even if they've had to do it themselves. Women will die attempting to access abortion and put an end to an unwanted pregnancy.

Making abortion illegal does not, and will never stop abortion, except in the case of those women so marginalized that they do not have options.

An unwanted pregnancy is untenable to enough women, that civilised countries enshrine their right to access abortion in law.

The onus is on the 'pro-life' side to convince every single living person now, and indefinitely into to the future that abortion is not the solution to an unwanted pregnancy, and that it not going to happen.

You will never do it because it's an impossible task. And so, women who don't want to be pregnant will continue to access abortions by whatever means they have at their disposal.

Congratulations to Baby!

because there's been a lot of talk about it. Survival rates of premature babies are increasing

Who is talking about it? The government? The NHS? Or just you and your anti-choice pals? Links please.

And while survivability may be slightly increasing, the rate of serious long-term health problems remains unchanged.

I'm sorry if the things I'm about to type upset anyone who has had a premature baby. I'm about to discuss stats, survivability, and long-term outcomes.

47% of very premature babies (born between 24 and 28 weeks) die so while survivability may have increased, we're still not looking at amazing odds. Babies born at this gestation very often have a long road ahead of them and require a lot of support, even more so if the child already has a known medical issue prior to birth. Abortions at 24+ weeks make up the minority of all abortions, roughly 134 a year, and are nearly all due to health issues so 134 extra SCBU would be needed. Where are these beds coming from? A fully equipped incubator with ventilator, nest, and equipment costs around £100,000. Then there are the costs of increased staffing, treatments and therapies, surgeries, and so on. One estimate puts the cost at £6000 per day. There will also be the increased cost of maternal care, the cost of labour and delivery or the cost of a caesarean, the cost of aftercare, the cost of SMP for the time she must legally take off work following delivery. In 2010 the NHS spent £118m was spent on abortions, including late term abortion. If the women carrying babies that bumbly thinks are viable were forced to give birth instead then that £118m would be dwarfed by the increased spending on SCBU, pre and post natal care, SMP, social care for the children when they leave hospital, long term health care for them, and so on. I'm not saying cost should decide who gets treatment and who doesn't, I'm not saying we shouldn't treat premature babies, I'm not looking for debate on allocation of NHS funds, I'm simply laying out the information.

From Tommy's website a study of six year olds who had been born very prematurely (pre-27 weeks) showed that 22% had severe disability (not walking, low cognitive scores, blindness, profound hearing loss), 24% had moderate disability (cerebral palsy, IQ/cognitive scores in the special educational needs range, a lesser degree of visual or hearing impairment), 34% had mild disability (low IQ/cognitive score, squint or refractive error, requiring glasses), and 20% had no problems. When children born before 26 weeks were re-assessed in middle childhood (aged 11 years), the researchers found that 45% had serious cognitive impairment. Again, I'm not say disabled people should be euthanized (I'm disabled) however bumbley spoke of these children entering the care system or being adopted. I don't need to quote stats to show that disability severely lowers a child's chances of being adopted and significantly increases the chance that they will be abused or neglected.

So, in bumbley's wonderful utopian society of no abortion, women will be second class citizens subjected to what is basically physical and emotional torture and there would be a huge increase of premature deliveries with the resulting children subjected to everything that potentially accompanies this.