To think there are a lot of misconceptions about terminating a pregnancy

[fiveacres]

Obviously, about abortion, which is a contentious issue for some.

I am approaching the third due date of the pregnancy I terminated in the autumn of 2011 at 9 weeks.

I was a very pious sort once, who believed that abortions were morally wrong. i admit that freely. I still do feel that the best option is not to be in that position in the first place.

However, although I do sometimes think about it, I don't regret it. I've been pregnant twice since so it hasn't affected my fertility.

I paid privately. I did not have any counselling - I was undecided when I went for the initial appointment but I have to say it was very much 'assumed' that I wanted to terminate. The record of the abortion is not in my medical file.

You don't have to give a reason, although they did press me to have the implant, which I refused. They did do a scan, which was a bit upsetting.

It did not hurt. I was warned I would bleed a lot but I didn't. My periods came back in 6 weeks.

You are in a room with a LOT of other women after the procedure, which is upsetting.

Other than that, I felt good after having it done, relieved, happy, mainly relieved.

I do have the odd flash of guilt. I wouldn't do it again.

But, I was reading another thread and it crossed my mind a lot of people do not really seem to know what having a termination is like. My experience may be typical or it may not be, I don't know, but it would be interesting to see what the experiences of others are to try to dispel or to address some of the myths that surround this difficult but sometimes necessary issue.

Agreed with flippinada and with bertrand there are also women whose lives are destroyed by having a baby they did not want and whose family relationships are shattered forever by a pregnancy. And there are children who suffer lifelong from having parents who did not want them and who are unable to care for them properly.

I have some personal experience indirectly as the 1 out of 6 or so pregnancies that was not terminated by my biological mother for reasons of convenience. Far as I'm concerned it was chance that I lived - which makes me no different from anyone else. It's always chance as to which sperm and which eggs come together, whether planned or unplanned.

Though I suppose my mother's story does show that yes, some women do use termination unnervingly regularly.

The only time in my life I used a prescribed type of contraception as opposed to timing things was when I needed a termination.

Granted I do have a large family but all my children were planned

They must have told you how many abortions though, if you know the rest? I think thats what people want to know?

There are always going to be outliers at the end of any spectrum. You have to accept them in order to maintain the options for the vast majority clustered around the middle.

To clarify - I certainly don't think that having multiple unwanted children is the solution. But I do think that people such as the two of my acquaintance - adult women in the UK (and their partners) with free, legal, ready access to a wide range of contraceptive methods and information - do have some personal responsibility when it comes to preventing unwanted pregnancy. Failing to do so because you 'can't be bothered' (that is a direct quote) is something that I will judge a person for.

Person 1 - 3+ abortions (I don't know the exact number), 1 living child, 1 report to social services

Person 2 - 2 abortions, 1 living child

To clarify - I don't judge the abortions, I judge the complete lack of personal responsibility (admitted to me first-hand, not assumed by me) that led to them

Why does it matter how many someone else has?

Really and truely why. I know one person who has had more than 4 over her lifetime and not one of those is anything to do with me. Her reasons are hers

I struggle to call 2 abortions either multiple or repeated (well one is a repeat, but you know what I mean).

I would also argue that having an abortion rather than a child you don't want/can't support does show personal responsibilty of a different sort.

I would also argue that having an abortion rather than a child you don't want/can't support does show personal responsibility of a different sort.

I'd agree with this. But I still think there isn't much excuse for getting into that situation in the first place, in the circumstances I've described above. That's my personal view anyway.

If I were (when I was younger) having regular sex and not using any contraception I'd have been pregnant every year. As women commonly were before contraception.

I doubt very much theres many (if any) women having 13 or 14 abortions or more in their lifetime. Which would be the result as using it permanently as an alternative to contraception.

I think many people have thought 'oh, just this once' without contraception. It's irresponsible, but it doesn't mean they actually believe terminations are an alternative form of contraception.

"
I would also argue that having an abortion rather than a child you don't want/can't support does show personal responsibilty of a different sort."

Except that if they were taking the 'personal responsibility' of using contraception they would be far less likely to ever need to take that kind of 'personal responsibility'.

So you know somebody who uses no contraception and says she uses abortion instead and has had 2 abortions in total? Sounds as if she is quite good at the rhythm method!

Interesting use of the word "repeated" by the way.

bertrand there's no need to be snarky even if you don't agree with me. Repeated = more than once, surely?

I stand by what I said - I think that to knowingly not use contraception and then use abortion to deal with the consequences is morally wrong. I'm glad it's legal to do so, but that's my opinion. Other opinions are available.

knit

If your argument is a moral one then that's for your body to judge and not for you or any of us to tell another pregnant woman what her moral compass is.

If your argument is a practical one then would you prefer thousands more unwanted babies in the world?

The only argument is this.

You either think a pregnant woman has unassailable rights over her body choice to give birth only when she wants to or you don't.

You either think a woman has superior rights over her body or the foetus does.

For me on an terms moral practical or as a human right a woman should have choices and rights over her own body pregnant or otherwise.

Yes totally agree with your last post when you say glad the choice is there.

Morals are as you say personal choice.

As long as they are kept out of legislation on abortion choices then that's fine.

Except that if they were taking the 'personal responsibility' of using contraception they would be far less likely to ever need to take that kind of 'personal responsibility

And if people and life weren't complicated that would be a good answer. It's just not that simple.
And, on point, whose business is that anyway? Not mine, not yours.

If your argument is a moral one then that's for your body to judge and not for you or any of us to tell another pregnant woman what her moral compass is. If your argument is a practical one then would you prefer thousands more unwanted babies in the world?^

I've already stated that this is the case. Practically/legally speaking, I am pro-choice because the alternative is unthinkable. But I don't think it follows that I have to personally condone/agree with ALL uses of abortion regardless of situation.

Knit that's totally fine for you. Obviously as someone who pretty much did the thing you think is morally wrong I disagree. And I would argue that it's never simple. It's never 'I'm going to get pregnant and just abort it whoopie-do'. It can be all kinds of things. In my specific case it was almost a disbelief that I actually would get pregnant, coupled with a generally slightly self-destructive time of life that made me think 'well fuck it if I do', and the knowledge, however unpalatable it may be to admit, that I could have an abortion if I did.

I think I wanted to know if I would get pregnant. It was fucking dumb, granted, and the fact that I did it shows, I think, that I wasn't exactly in a great position to have a child. I had considered my abortion before I even had the unprotected sex. It was possibly quite a lot about hurting myself, in hindsight.

I am lucky that my abortion didn't affect me negatively. But there were a lot of really stupid things I was doing at that time that could equally have had serious repercussions, and some that in fact did.

Obviously I wouldn't tell anyone that what I did was a good idea to do. It was dumb, irresponsible, and not at all what I wanted. I ended up having a medical procedure, I cost the government money, and I could easily have avoided it. But it was my body, and my choice.

shaska that sounds like a difficult time in your life and I'm sorry you had to go through that. You don't sound like your circumstances match up with those women I mentioned upthread - you sound like you were in a bad place.

For me there is middle ground between the polarising attitudes around abortion that seem to be either 'you've fucked up, how DARE you have sex, evil, evil woman!' or 'it's nothing, there's no need to take responsibility, don't question any moral aspect of abortion or you're an evil woman-hating bigot'. I think in personal terms I'm somewhere in between. As I said - in legal terms - pro choice.

I absolutely agree that it was your body, your choice. I'm glad it hasn't affected you negatively.

Morals are so personal, but so many people seem to think they are widely accepted as fact. "this is morally wrong" is what people say, as if its some objective definition that we all share. And that leads to moral decisions influencing legal and societal decisions.
We don't all share the same morals on this subject. We don't have to. We just have to accept that our morals can't affect other peoples choices. Essentially our morals are irrelevant.

winter they may be irrelevent to other people's choices but they are highly relevent to personal choice, surely? And abortion is a hugely personal choice.

Yes, I thought that was implied. Sorry if unclear.Perhaps I should have said, our morals are irrelevant to anyone but ourselves.

That's the thing though Knit - in hindsight I think my god, what was I doing. But at the time I felt like I was just... living life, you know?

So with these women who have had these multiple abortions due to not using contraception, I guess I mean I'm sure that for them it's in some way similar to what it was for me, that there can be all sorts of things going on. And perhaps the very fact that they're not taking precautions is a sign that they're not really in great shape to have a child.

I agree with you that it's not terrific to be completely blasé about it. But I guess I just don't think anyone ever is, really. Despite appearances.

Do we have a number on amount that are considered to be to many for each woman?

Obviously it can't be 1 or 2

As it would be interesting to see if any stats exist for amount of women having that amount for none health reasons