everyone living in the UK should get to vote on EU ref

[agentEgypt]

Just heard on the radio that EU migrants won't be allowed to vote. This seems very unfair as many could have been here and laying tax for decades!

Quite right Hirples, should have said OUT

I've just voted in the National elections and I'm not a British citizen. I have lived here for many years and paid a huge amount of tax though. What Cameron is proposing is unenforceable. If someone lives and pays taxes in a country, they have the right to vote on any issue that affects them. Lots of immigrants have just voted in the Irish referendum (including British immigrants) and quite right too! If they live in Ireland they have a right to vote.

Lots of immigrants have just voted in the Irish referendum (including British immigrants) and quite right too! If they live in Ireland they have a right to vote.

No they haven't, not unless they have Irish citizenship.

I think to make it fair they had to either give everyone living in the uk the vote (like Scotland did) but not give British people living in other countries the vote or only allow British people to vote even if they live in a different country.

I am under the impression that there are a similar amount of Brits living in European countries as there are European immigrants in the uk, I imagine the vast majority of both European immigrants and ex pats wil vote in. The advantage for the "in" vote is that Brits in other non-European countries will be allowed to vote (I assume they are more likely to be pro EU as they choose to live aboard themselves) I think that Brits living aboard outnumber European immigrants in the uk.

I will be using my vote despite not living in the uk and having no intention to live in the uk again, I don't vote in uk general elections despite having the right to do so as I don't feel it's right (I now have duel nationality so I vote in the country I live in) but this vote will directly effect me and my family so it's very important that I vote.

professornangnang What is your citizenship? If you are not a Commonwealth citizen and are on the register for parliamentary elections you should not be and if you are there by mistake you should take yourself off the register at the next opportunity. Paying taxes is nether here nor there.

If you are an EU national but not a Commonwealth citizen you have a right to be registered and vote in local elections. What DC has said - and on this occasion he is right - is that the referendum should be conducted on the parliamentary and not the local government franchise.

I don't for a minute think that if the result is a vote to leave the EU we would or should kick out those EU member UK residents (retroactively)

You may not think that but has any politician actually said they won't all be kicked out. And what about all the UK emigrants living in the EU, particularly the retired ones not contributing much and using the reciprocal healthcare? Can't see those EU countries being keen to let them stay....

he is trying to strengthen our bargaining position with the EU. if EU residents were given a vote it would be a non-starter, as there are so many living here already. so what he's doing is strengthening the potential 'no' vote so that we can get more of the things we want from EU - eg makig our own benefits strategy, and not encouraging lots of people to move here and get working benefits by doing low paid jobs. it seems not unreasonable to me that we can decide not to be the benefits magnet of europe by paying more than any other country, despite having the least amount of space available for people

I really wish we could separate discussions about in/out of the EU from the 'benefits magnet' issue (a bit of an exaggeration IMO). The larger issue is migrants from EU countries with poorer economies coming to the UK and being prepared to WORK for minimum wage or less, which is having a detrimental effect on wages and living standards in general. One has to ask the question why, in London at least, so many menial jobs on terrible wages are filled by EU migrants. THAT is what is holding living standards back. Please stop the benefit bashing; it's really NOT the problem.

judy - but thats how they are able to work for minimum wages - without benefits they couldn't afford rent etc

PennyJennyPie - a question: I get that you choose not to take British Citizenship - no reason why you should. Can I ask do you still have the right to vote in the country in which you are a citizen?

At what point would "living here" kick in? (A month, six months, five years?).

Could someone who travels frequently or has more than one home have more than one vote? (Quite a lot of Brits abroad have two homes and many Eu migrants here have kept their home in their own country. Many pay tax in both places)

I think that if you choose to live here and become a citizen then you should vote - otherwise vote in the country whose citizenship you have chosen.

If someone lives and pays taxes in a country, they have the right to vote on any issue that affects them.

I can't tell you how much I disagree with this!!

If you want to vote, become a British Citizen, otherwise tough luck! And if that makes me "racist" then so be it....

YANBU. I don't think it's very fair at all

It's absolute bollocks that commonwealth citizens get a say in something that is an EU matter.

One has to ask the question why, in London at least, so many menial jobs on terrible wages are filled by EU migrants."

Shouldn't the first question be why are there so many jobs paying terrible wages?

And the third question be won't removing such a massive source of cheap labour lead to rampant inflation?

What does everyone think that the effect of EU nationals voting would be? If everyone in the UK, no one outside it was able to vote versus if all citizens + Ireland, Malta etc.
I can't really think of anything that is convincing me that the outcome would significantly change either way, whatever the outcome is.

Because it seems to me that this problem is redundant unless there is a chance of the outcome changing.

Shouldn't the first question be why are there so many jobs paying terrible wages?

Surely that is obvious - because there are lots of people prepared to do them.

Exactly Soup supply and demand. Take away the endless supply and wages must go up and the British people who are jobless will be in a better position to take those jobs and get out of the benefits trap where it pays just as well to do nothing.

I don't disagree with the decision, it was basically either give everyone currently a UK resident to vote or stick to the general election rules and allow UK residents overseas to vote. I think this way will marginally favour the yes vote, as UK residents overseas are more likely to vote and vote yes. But I can see the other arguments. I live elsewhere in the EU, but vote in the UK. I am completely happy with that, because I am a follower of UK politics and just don't have the same understanding of Dutch politics. If the Dutch held an in out referendum though, I would feel sufficiently informed and involved to vote (but probably wouldn't be able to).

It looks very much like I won't get a vote (UK citizen living in EU).

I don't think I should vote in a general election. Although I remain a UK taxpayer in a small way (UK investments) I'm tax resident abroad and no longer have a stake in most of what is decided by a UK govermnent.

An EU referendum is different however, as it profoundly affects all British citizens who have taken advantage of their right to free movement as EU citizens. We risk being stranded abroad unable to return "home" for financial and practical reasons, but no longer having the right to remain in our home countries without either taking foreign citizenship or obtaining visas. Fortunately both my children will have (automatically) obtained the right to citizenship by 2017 otherwise I would be concerned for their futures.

The most irritating thing is that the Tory government pledged to reverse the 15 year rule in their manifesto. They have conveniently forgotten about this for the referendum!

It's absolute bollocks that commonwealth citizens get a say in something that is an EU matter.

Indeed. Relic of history, from he days when we were all British subjects, not citizens, all owing the same allegiance to the Widow at Windsor.

And we could all move without control from one part of the Mighty Empire on which the Sun Never Set to another.

We should abolish it like the Aussies did.

If someone lives and pays taxes in a country, they have the right to vote on any issue that affects them.

Even the illegal immigrants? They pay VAT, which is a tax, after all.

Wow, my oath of loyalty to the Crown when I got my citizenship really was worthless, wasn't it.

Basically the voting rules will be skewed towards a staying in as that's what they want.

They will throw the kitchen sink at making sure we stay in and wages remain low.

inabeautifulplace I don't think there would be rampant inflation but frankly, inflation of some sort would be no bad thing. In April, we entered deflation. The BOE insist this was a temporary blip, but if we want wages to rise then we need to go back to inflation at a reasonable level. If our standards of living are to rise then we have to, as someone also just posted, remove cheap sources of labour. Not all the EU migrant workers claim benefits; many of them work 2-3 jobs on minimum wage. It's their work ethic coupled with a willingness to live in cramped conditions in crap areas that means employers have this work force. This has to change, for the good of all concerned and the wellbeing of workers everywhere.

If we're going to throw open the vote to anyone that might be affected by the UK leaving the EU then surely we should let all EU citizens vote, no matter where they are?

Or we could stick to the tried & tested formula of letting the citizens of a country have their say as they're the ones that'll be stuck with any result won't be able to scoot off home to another country if it goes horribly wrong.....

I do think they should be allowed to vote. And saying they should just become citizens is ridiculous if they are EU nationals with right of free movement. Maybe they haven't (yet!) lived in GB for 5 years. Or maybe they can't afford to pay roughly £1000 per adult and £700 per child to become a citizen.

And I also think that UK citizens in other countries should be allowed to vote, even if they have lived outside the UK for more than 15 years.

My whole family are British and we have lived abroad in the EU for less than 15 years - so fortunately I'll have the right to vote. I haven't lived in this country long enough to become a citizen, so a vote for leaving will leave the family in a difficult situation. We might have to return to the UK. If we apply to become naturalised here (can't do it yet, but could in a few years) we might have to lose our British nationality, because the rules of the country we are in only let you keep another nationality if it is from an EU nation. I don't want to lose my British nationality.

If the UK leaves the EU, that will potentially affect me massively - just as it will affect those EU nationals living in the UK at the moment. The prospect that you might be told you no longer have a legal right to live in a place you currently call home, and where your children were born is unsettling. More so if you have absolutely no say in the matter yourself.

It should either be ALL UK nationals, regardless of where they are living.
Or ALL UK residents, regardless of nationality.

Ideally both.