everyone living in the UK should get to vote on EU ref

[agentEgypt]

Just heard on the radio that EU migrants won't be allowed to vote. This seems very unfair as many could have been here and laying tax for decades!

I'm surprised to hear Irish citizens will be allowed to vote in the referendum. British citizens not afforded the same right in Ireland, AFAIK. I suppose it's to avoid any legal difficulties with NI/GFA.

So Red does that mean people who don't pay tax because they earn under the threshold, or are sick, or jobless shouldn't be allowed to vote?

Redtoothbrush, I don't pay tax because I am on benefits right now. Should I not be allowed to vote?

I would vote to stay in. I live in an area with a huge number of migrants, and I can see that nearly all are working hard and doing their best here. Also, I like my neighbours, and like that my sons are growing up with a bit of cultural diversity
We are a richer place in every sense from having migrants around.

I have a parent who isn't a British citizen but gets a vote in general elections. I suspect they will also get a referendum vote.

Neither me nor DP are UK citizens but from other EU countries. We have both been here for 10 years +, both working full time and paying significant amounts of tax ( including 2 lots of stamp duty), both never been eligible for any benefits ( with the exception of NHS). DS1 is born here and have the right to a UK passport, DS2 is due in 6 weeks time and will equally be eligible for a UK passport, incidentally our use of NHS services over the past 10 years has been largely due to the birth of our offspring.

I would happily give up my right to vote on my home country to be able to vote in the UK. It would cost me approx 1000£ to become a British citizen.

Essentially, I have lived in the UK for most of my adult life, and noone in my 4 person family will have the right to express an opinion on whether we can stay here. Do you think that sounds right?

Off topic but do stop saying you don't pay tax when you mean you don't pay income tax which is only one part of the tax take.

Apply for British citizenship if eligible then you'll be able to vote.....simple.

If the assertion is everyone who would lose out by a vote, be able to vote, then it would have to be everyone with the possibility of living in the UK, so everyone in the EU, lots of ex-pats elsewhere etc.

Not very sustainable...

MaidOfStars Commonwealth citizens who can live in the UK get more voting rights than EU visitors in national matters.

Penny, yes that sounds right. Are you sure your children are eligible for British passports? As far as I was aware they need to be over the age of 10 if born to two non- uk parents and have not been outside of the uk for more than 90 days in that time. If I were you I'd be throwing the 1000 at the gov for getting citizenship...

I was surprised to hear that commonwealth citizens who are residents will be able to vote. That includes a long list of countries. But not EU citizens who will be directly affected and may have to uproot their lives. Doesn't seem fair. Should be consistent: either all residents (as in the Scottish referendum) or UK citizens only.

No, of course they shouldn't be allowed a vote, the same as being unable to vote in a general election.

Sorry but this is all about racism. STILL.

People of all races get to vote if they are British citizens. People of all races are excluded from voting if they are not. So I'm struggling to see the racism here.

If you pay tax you take part.

As others have said : do you think non tax payers shouldn't vote then?

I don't believe in referendums at all. If we're going to basically have a straw poll on every important decision then what is the point of electing a government?
Having said that I will be voting to stay in the EU as it would be disastrous for us to leave.

Do British citizens living in the EU get to vote?

What's the point of citizenship status if all you have to do is pay taxes here to have the rights of a citizen? How much tax are we talking, anyway? Perhaps non-citizens should be taxed separately to 'earn' their citizenship (MEH).

When I became a Subject of HRM I had to swear an oath of fealty. If all the would-be voters want to do that, fine, pay the ~ £1000, renounce your citizenship elsewhere (often required) and swear your oath of loyalty to the crown. Queen, British values, ceremony and so on.

Rights of being a citizen aren't trivial, they should be seen as a privilege & responsibility.

If you want to moan about money cost of becoming a British citizen, that's a separate debate.

I have this argument with DP all the time- he is French, and is incandescent with rage that he cannot vote in general elections as 'he pays tax'.

As others have said, we should not equate tax paying with the right to vote- no tax, no vote would be a terrible way to go.

I am also of the opinion that he could become a UK citizen if it means that much to him hell will freeze over first.

Interestingly, he can vote in local elections- I'm not sure why this is ok?

Also, what is the rationale for allowing Commonwealth citizens to vote in general elections, does anyone know? It seems a little inconsistent.

Do British citizens living in the EU get to vote?

Yes, British citizens abroad can vote if they have been living outwith the UK for less than 15 years.

Name another EU country which allows non-citizens to vote in general elections or referendums.

Didn't Scotland allow non citizens a vote in their referendum? Or have I got that wrong?
I know of no other EU country where non citizens can vote in General Elections or referenda.

Take the recent Irish referenda, I think there are about 300, 000 British citizens living there long term and permanantly, who (unless they had dual citizenship) had no vote.

Irish citizens and commenwealth, can vote in General Elections in the UK and had a vote in the AV referendum in 2011 (not sure if other EU citizens had a vote for AV ref)

EU migrants who aren't citizens can't vote in general elections either. Commonwealth citizens can though

Again, Irish (not commonwealth) can too. Can British citizens vote in Irish General Elactions?

My best friend is a French citizen, lived and worked here for 30 years does not have a vote in UK General Elections but my cousin who is Irish and moved in with me 8 months ago did vote in the last one.
With referenda their is a case that if the issue affects the people living in a country who are not citizens, then they should have a vote, but I feel in case like the recent Irish referenda, if it changes the actual constitution then maybe only the actual citizens of that country should get a vote.

Also it could be said there is a conflict of interest in other EU citizens voting in the UK on an EU issue (not gay marriage for example). So it would be ok for other, non EU migrants to have a vote in an EU ref. But really to be fair, this conflict would be the same for Irish citizens.
So either all EU citizens get a vote or none do. This includes the Irish. It would be the only fair way.

Myself I am not sure which way is best but surely it has to be the same for ALL EU citizens?
Couldn't a French person claim discrimination if she didn't have a vote and an Irish person did?

Maybe there is an element of racism in some people's thoughts on this, as they don't the idea of 'other' Europeans getting a vote but haven't minded Irish immigrants having a vote in all UK General Elections for 93 years.

I don't know.

"I don't believe in referendums at all. If we're going to basically have a straw poll on every important decision then what is the point of electing a government?"

And this. I agree with this.

Hopefully the ex pats who've disappeared to warmer climes will vote to stay in.

Isn't Ireland part of the Commonwealth?

Scotland is not an EU country. The UK is the EU nation state. The Scottish referendum franchise used the local government register.

The thinking behind the independence referendum franchise was that it would be fair to make it open to those who are eligible to vote in Scottish Parliament elections. EU citizens are able to vote in Scottish Parliament elections because these are considered to be local elections, not national ones, and therefore EU law requires that EU citizens be allowed to vote in them.

Using that same logic, it does make some sense to restrict the franchise for the EU referendum to those who can vote in UK General elections. Franchise is a pretty complicated issue, and there are usually a multitude of arguments in favour of any option.

Can British citizens vote in Irish General Elactions?

Yes.

Isn't Ireland part of the Commonwealth?

No.