everyone living in the UK should get to vote on EU ref

[agentEgypt]

Just heard on the radio that EU migrants won't be allowed to vote. This seems very unfair as many could have been here and laying tax for decades!

I find it terrifying that we are having this referendum. Its such an important decision and will affect millions of people. It should be decided by the government who we elected. For every informed and sensible voter there will be an uniformed voter who just doesn't understand the the ramifications of leaving EU and who is stuck on the whole "sick of all the foreigners" thinking and it scares me.

I agree Magic - no referendum would be my overall preference, but as it's too late to put it back in the box now, everyone who is going to be affected by the outcome should be included.

Excluding those who have most to lose is inherently unfair.

It isn;t unfair at all, and it is also totally beside the point.

It's not about what non-British citizens stand to lose, is it? It's about what the British people think they stand to lose or gain by leaving the EU.

There's plenty of British citizens excluded too, namely those who've been abroad, a lot of them exercising treaty rights, for more than 15 years. The referendum is about the decision to unilaterally withdraw rights from a group of people, why should they not be asked?

Do you think it's wrong that non-UK EU nationals resident in the UK can choose to elect their MEP in their place of residence?

No of course they should not be allowed to vote!

If I lived in Spain or France I would not expect a vote in their country.

I have Polish friend who has lived here for 20 years and she still doesnt feel its her country and feels more loyalty and care for her birth country and where she grew up. Which is fine but why should people who have been here for even less time and would clearly only vote for their own interests, vote?

I can't believe anyone would think they had a right too, I have family all over the world, I would think it extremely arrogant to be honest if they moaned about not being able to vote on similar issues in their host countries.

I'mI'm surprised people think this decision won't affect Ireland. It could potentially have a massive impact on them, especially when the 'leave' vote seems to be so motivated by reinstating border controls for EU migrants. They'd have to do the same, thus leaving the EU, or have tight border controls between them and the UK. Otherwise we'd be saying no to migrants but leaving the back door wide open for them. surprised people think this decision won't affect Ireland. It could potentially have a massive impact on them, especially when the 'leave' vote seems to be so motivated by reinstating border controls for EU migrants. They'd have to do the same, thus leaving the EU, or have tight border controls between them and the UK. Otherwise we'd be saying no to migrants but leaving the back door wide open for them.

No.
There has always been freedom of movement right to work and live in UK for Irish citizens. You still don't have to have a passport to travel between Ireland and UK if you are a citizen of either country. And we can both vote in each others General Elections. So even as members of EU we can have different rules for citizens of different EU member countries.
If UK left the EU, we could still keep this agreement in place and indeed extend it and have the same agreement with whatever country we chose who wanted agreed (France, Spain 'Germany for example)
As non EU country we could choose to keep our pre EU agreement with Ireland and I am fairly sure we would and that Ireland would want to also.
Unfair on other countries maybe but (shrugs)

It does stagger me how selfish and short sighted people are really. Voting and wanting a vote to protect ones own personal vested interest no matter what the wider good for the country is.

They are not British citizens and the decision is for British citizens to make, not anyone else

Belatedly making a choice on something that was decided without our consent. Horse bolted, stable door.

But the problem would revolve around the land border between the UK and Ireland ThatWasMyFavouriteDressNow. Do you anticipate (re-)instituting controls at every lane and boreen crossing the border? Otherwise how do you propose to manage that particular situation?

UK or Ireland would have to end the agreements they have had since before EU. (Since 1922 probably?) I very much doubt either country would do this. It is totally seperate agreement from any EU membership.
So no, I am sure it wouldn't affect Irish citizens or UK citizens living in Ireland.

But ThatWasMyFavouriteDressNow - Ireland is in the EU, and thus has free entry for all EU citizens. Who could then enter the UK from Ireland virtually undetected. How long do you think the UK would be ok with allowing that happen? The UK referendum has all sorts of consequences for Ireland.

Otherwise how do you propose to manage that particular situation?

By giving the 6 counties back. Reunification.

I wouldn't want anything to change personally. Especially between Ireland and UK. It would make things difficult for me and my family.
Just giving my thoughts to a PP who thinks UK leaving the EU would affect the Irish living in UK. I don't think it would.

Well said TTWK.

Toothbrush you are truly pathetic. It is because of people like YOU that racism and so much hatred is now part of every day life. It is YOU that causes racism to stir among normal everyday citizens that wouldn't normally give such subjects a second of thought.

The policy has been thought out correctly and is very fair in my opinion.

ButThatWasMyFavouriteDressNow- Ireland is in the EU, and thus has free entry for all EU citizens. Who could then enter the UK from Ireland virtually undetected. How long do you think the UK would be ok with allowing that happen? The UK referendum has all sorts of consequences for Ireland.

In the same way that at present (technically) UK and Ireland citizens do not need a passport to travel between either countries but a eg. French citizen needs a passport to gain entry from Ireland to UK.
The same as a non EU citizen travelling between the 2 countries at present.

Ilove Maybe so, but we did have a referendum to gauge support for staying in the common market, even if we didn't get much of a say on joining it, and it was decided that we should stay in.

If the majority now think with hindsight that membership has not served us well all things considered, then we have the opportunity to change it. Obviously we can't turn back the clock 40 years, but we can take back control and autonomy if the majority want it.

I do think that had we had a crystal ball in 1975 the outcome of the referendum would have been different. Whether the UK would have been any better or worse for not being in the Common Market/EU we can only guess at, but I do think that most Brits who voted in that referendum would have looked in that crystal ball at the UK as it is today and the way the employment landscape has changed forever and thought 'no thanks.'

So you mean closing the land border between Ireland and the UK then?

I'm going to assume that in the run up to it they will be campaigns which will give everyone (who plans to vote) to make an informed decision about it.

Whether a voter thinks about the effect of the choice they make as to be for their own vested interest or for the wider good of the country is their choice (and properly the biggest cause of most political disagreements!!)

It does seem a lot of the time in referendums that people who actually vote and don't know, or feel they don't know enough tend to vote no (in other words opt for things not to change)

Though despite what I said up thread (because I'm miffed) I do think a referendum is for the citizens if that country.

My cousin is Irish, her partner is Algerian. Her sister's partner is French. The two sisters don't need passports to enter UK, their partners do. The only one who can't work or stay here at present is the Algerian. But he can enter the UK undetected easily, yes, but UK allows this to happen. He can also enter detected easily too and then stay here. But he wouldn't have right to work. Leaving the EU could put the French man in the same boat but not his Irish partner.

I'm pretty bemused by the whole subject. As a populace are we educated enough to understand the far reaching implications of leaving the EU? On the whole I would say no. But citizens only seems like the best way to decide voters.

Itsraining - the only thing that stands between me and voting in this referendum is a 1000£. Would you pay 1000£ for your right to vote?

Besides who says that I would vote in my personal best interest rather than for the best of the country where I have lived for more than 10 years?

Stokes The common travel area massively predates EU free movement, and the Irish have rights to live and work in the UK without the EU regulations. Of course that could change if not in EU, but they could live and work here before the UK was in, and will be able to afterwards.

So you mean closing the land border between Ireland and the UK then?

Isthis question to me?

Personally I would like there to be no land border. Ie. A 32 county Irish state. But would closing the land border be necessary when there are many, many non EU citizens living in Ireland now. How does an open land border deal with this? What happens at present?

No, it's our business. If I lived in the EU outside the UK I would not vote even if I was allowed to.

As for the Commonwealth citizens' vote: I would not disenfranchise Commonwealth citizens already on the register but I would not allow those not on the register to join it. I believe that's how the Australians did it. In time the Commonwealth citizens on the register will either be naturalised or leave the country or die.

For every informed and sensible voter there will be an uniformed voter who just doesn't understand the the ramifications of leaving EU and who is stuck on the whole "sick of all the foreigners" thinking and it scares me.

Informed isn't necessarily synonymous with Europhile. I will be voting Out unless there are substantial reforms, and I am pretty well educated and informed.

I find it frankly pretty fucking rude that people are making these wild generalisations about Eurosceptics being easily-lead, tabloid-reading racist knuckleheads.

I'm not a citizen. I voted in the Scottish independence referendum and the last general election.

I am a permanent resident and have the right to vote.

I think EU migrants who meet the criteria I, as a non EU migrant meet, should be allowed to have their say.