To ask you what really works in getting a DP to do their fair share

[toomuchtooold]

OK upfront I'll say what my AIBU is, which is AIBU to ask to pick your brains and see what the best methods are for making DPs do their fair share.

It seems like on AIBU a couple of times a week someone else will post about their DP not pulling their weight. Usually it's one specific thing they fall out over but within each AIBU and across all of them there's a similar story:

• DP thinks he's entitled to rest when he's at home and not deal with night wakings if he is working/is working the longer hours
• DP gets out of a lot of work (night wakings, cleaning, organising school stuff) by ignoring/minimising it: didn't hear the kid in the night, doesn't have such high standards as you in cleaning, thinks it's fine for kid to go to school wearing last year's shoes
• DP just is day to day a bit more lazy - doesn't engage with the kids so much so they come to mum first for everything, only gets up when the kids get up etc
• before having kids DP has some prior commitment like rugby training that takes up 3 nights a week and even though there's no quid pro quo DP doesn't see any problem with continuing this

I've been reading some feminist stuff and getting a bit fired up about this. I read in Susan Maushart's Wifework that the majority of divorces are instigated by women (and the ONS 2012 divorce stats show that: 65% of divorces in 2012 were instigated by women. I wonder how much of that is because women get a raw deal in marriage particularly when the kids come along?

I don't want to get divorced but I do get bloody irritated with my DH and would like to see him do an equal share so I could get some free time and also so I can still respect him rather than being low level annoyed at him about 80% of the time! (If anyone wants the not very juicy details, happy to share )

So my big question to you Mumsnetters is has anyone managed to get their partner to see the unfairness in their setup and change it, and if so, how did you do it?

I find being married to an actual grown up does the trick for me.

Seriously, you can't make another adult pull their socks up. It is down to them. All you can do is decide if you are prepared to put up with it or not.

Your husband is lazy, selfish, not interested in the kids when he can't be bothered, and has no respect for you.

I had one like that, I divorced him.

If he respected you, he would listen to you.
If he gave a shit about the kids, he would interact with them.
If he wasn't lazy, he would tidy the house.
If he was an actual grown up, he would pull his weight.

I was one those women in 2012, who divorced a man so selfish that despite crying a begging for help because I was so tired he went and had an affair with some who wasn't too flipping exhausted to have sex.
I think there are men who are thoughtful and pull their weight ( though you have to ask) and those who don't regardless of how much you ask.
I tired to change a thoughtless one, but failed he has now rewritten history and believes he was the primary carer for DD!

I found asking DH to do things he needed meant they got done. I would have to nag him to vacuum but as he needed shirts for work he would do the ironing no problem.

My DH does not do his share, he thinks he does which winds me up so much. I wfh a few days a week and l think he thinks l have these days off

I really like my IL but l blame them. His dm was a sahp who did everything around the house and fil does fuck all. Even now he's retired and mil works pt and still does everything.

It is a bit late now, but you start as you mean to go or you don't live with them! The very first time you expect them to wash up- e.g lunch with your parents you say ' DP and I will wash up.'
You let him sort out his own washing and ironing etc etc.

Since you have obviously not done this and collected an extra child you will need to sit him down and discuss it. Work out a fair distribution of jobs.
You will have to let him do it his way and not make yourself 'senior' partner e.g. If someone didn't like my ironing I would do the obvious and hand them the iron and say 'OK - you do it'.
The way with the children is to go away for the weekend and leave him to it- he doesn't need instructions - it his his house, his children and he is not the sitter. If you can't bring yourself to do this then at least go out just before bedtime, even if you just walk around the block. Get an interest that takes you out every week and leave him to it.
Stay in bed late at least one morning a week and when the children come to you say 'ask daddy'.

In summary- you let him be an extra child and only you can stop it.
You have to let go- stop being the senior partner in the relationship- and hand him equal responsibility. Having done this don't interfere- leave him to it.

When you sit down to have the discussion you do have to be tough- make it plain that if he doesn't act as equal parent you would be better off without him.

I think it's marrying someone who's lived on their own for a while first and seeing them in that situation and how they cope. If they're a total slob and leaving crap all over the place and changing their bedsheets once a year then generally you know it isn't going to change when they move in with you.

I was married to a total slob during my first marriage. It was just awful. I think a lot of it was because he went from living with his mum (who did everything) to coming to live with me and expected me to carry on being like his mum, even when we had dd. I left him when dd was 6 months old (she is now 12).

My husband now is very different. He lived alone for a long time before I met him and is very domesticated. If there was a major problem and he needed to take over being the sahm parent as I am I know the house wouldn't fall down on its knees. He still does numerous jobs and tidies up after himself despite working 55 hours a week.

I think just making it all non negoitable helps. I couldn't live with a lazy so and so.

I agree with Dinky, my OH was no. 2 in a family of 7 children and he has always, always done housework /gardening / car washing /decorating ever since we have been married.

I really think it's childhood patterns which set the standard. Hence, my two DC both know how to cook and clean and run a home.

OP - you have a hard road ahead.

I got DH to do his fair share of bringing up DS by returning to work full time.

I get him to do his fleur share around the house by producing a list (that's attached to our fridge) of all the jobs that I expect to have been done when I come home from work at 9pm

There is no one size fits all answer. Sometimes its not appropriate for the husband (assuming he is the wohp and the wife a sahp) to do night wakings, because they may have as fairly dangerous job, for example.

First off you need to work out what is 'fair'. Fair and equal aren't always the same things. So you need to figure out what works for you as a couple. And start there.

However simple fact is that if you haven't married someone who acts like an adult life will always be difficult. You can't change people.

Personally I wouldn't have married dh if I thought he didn't respect me enough to do his fair share. This week I did most of the childcare, shipping school runs etc. But dh worked about 80 hours. Yesterday morning he didn't think twice about taking them out to give me a few hours by myself. We don't keep tabs on what the other one has or hasn't done that week. We don't need to, we are both adults who are responsible for the kids, house and each other.

I might get flamed.....but I once did a management course, and some if the tips in that might help you! Stuff likebgiving him 'ownership' of a set task, so the can feel proud once its done....maybe if you bought a dummies guide to management??? If he's really beyond the point that asking won't help, subtle management might???

Don't expect him to read your mind. Give clear instructions, make direct requests.
Write a list of what needs to be done and agree who is going to do what (and when).

I agree that you need a man who has lived alone for some time.
Also stop the cycle and get your children helping from the earliest possible time.

Don't give 'clear instructions' - you are making yourself senior partner! He needs to take ownership and not look to the 'higher authority'.

A. Choose a partner who will pull his weight
B. Let him do his share his way and learn from his own mistakes.

B. Is as much of a problem as A for a lot of unequal relationships I see, but the women often don't want to seeing or aren't prepared to do it IME.

Seeing = see it.

My DH does a lot but has more free time and more lie ins.

We had to strike a deal over how the morning and evening childcare was done and although I still do more as co-sleeping and breastfeeding we did strike a deal over baths vs morning routine which is pretty strong.

I think you have to

A. Stop doing certain stuff (their ironing and washing) and tell them so, no point 'going on stile' and hoping they will notice
B. Talk, negotiate etc. DH is well aware I do more than him but over time he's really stepped up.

In regards to hobbies...am I the only one that had a conversation about things like this before having a baby? Or at least when pregnant?

Both me and dh have hobbies, neither of us gave them up (I did for later stages of pg and the first 6 weeks after the birth because its physical) but we reduced how much we went and changed times etc.

I am not sure why its assumed someone will give up their hobbies entirely when they have kids.

Get a family organiser calendar and make sure you have stuff on it just for you where he will have to child care.

We tried the Fair Share ap. the DSs (12 and 10) love it and look for jobs to do. DH doesn't engage. He does some jobs but doesn't use the ap. The DSs now think he does nothing. I know he does something. I do most. Watching this thread with interest.

You can't make a grown man do anything without resentment. Just like a good manager motivates rather than instructs.

You decide at the outset what you are prepared to compromise on. My MIL literally stirred FILs tea - that's how my DH was brought up and what he saw.

He knew from day one that I do not pander and do not like housework. He was the sort of chap who hadn't changed his bed linen for four months when he met me. He knew from day one that either he shared and helped or he paid for a cleaner. He paid for a cleaner.

I've always done the lion's share at home and with the children and that's fine. He is a workaholic and has always worked 12/14 hour days. Our contributions are different but as a team we are two equal halves and so it's all good.

He never, ever did the night feeds and night waking because he had a demanding job to go to the next day and had to be intellectually tip top. It was fine because I never expected him to and thought it quite right that he didn't.

He couldn't have focused as he did on his career without me and I have therefore been as instrumental in his success as him. I went back to work when my youngest was settled in reception (she's doing A'Levels now). We have both pulled our weight in different ways.

Oh, yes, and I'm just on my way to take him up a bacon sarnie and a cuppa because he happens to deserve it . And we need a little chat about some papers and old envelopes that need to be sorted and thrown away.

Dh and I both work full time. He does his fair share because it's fair. At times, I will remind him of a job that needs doing as he sometimes doesn't see mess. However, he recognises that it is fair for him to do his fair share so does it. With dd, I never have to encourage him to do more. He is her parent so does it.

When we first moved in together I found that saying 'we need to do the cleaning today, do you want to do upstairs or down?' Worked a treat. Now it is ingrained.