Parent and child spaces - would you sign this petition?

[confuseddazed]

A woman has set up a petition for safeguarding parent and parking spaces for under 5s here

I fractured my back recently and need an accessible parking space, I can't get in or out of the car without assistance. My husband has tried to park on an end space or used a p&c space at the supermarket. And popped to customer services to give them our car reg in case of someone complaining.
I really wish there was a temporary blue badge for people like me.

Another one applauding MrsDV!

My cousin was bringing my aunt (aged 82) shopping recently. My aunt is on crutches following a knee replacement. My cousin drove into a P&T space because it was near the door and my aunt went into a tizzy saying 'oh no, we can't park here. Someone will get cross with us'.

It is bloody pathetic that an elderly woman on crutches is made to feel that she cannot have a free parking space near the door in order that some fit and healthy mum can have the convenience of not having to steer her kids across the car park (something she presumably has to do in other car parks).

And as for people saying 'oh life can be very hard with small children'. Life can be very hard, full stop! Get over yourself.

Nope I would not sign it.

There is definitely a serious argument to be made to rename these spaces as accessible spaces for the use of those who need them (mobility problems but no blue badge, heavily pregnant, etc). I fully acknowledge it would be a nightmare to police though.

iI would sign. Have a 16 month old DS and a tiny car, so people love cramming their huge cars into space next to me, spilling out of their space squashing into mine meaning getting buggy in/out not to mention DS and car seat a complete hassle and come close to scratching their car (don't care if I do) or mine regularly. Car parks I use have so many disabled bays (rightly so) but they are never full, while barely any mum/baby spaces (always full) and see people who regularly park in these despite having no DC with them. Getting a parent/child space definitely makes my shopping experience a lot less stressful.

Nope, just cannot bring myself to care that much about a marketing ploy.

Careful BubGal13, apparently you're not entitled to a stress free shopping experience.

If one person feels it's necessary, then those feelings come from somewhere. If others share those feelings then they too will sign. If others don't get it they won't sign. Simple, but to then make out like the petition was drawn up by spoilt wimps who feel they should be entitled. That's just rude and OTT.

come close to scratching their car (don't care if I do)

Charming.

And I agree with MrsDV too.

tomato She is not any more 'entitled' to a stress free shopping experience than anyone else. Therefore she should not be allowed specially reserved spaces at the door over and above elderly people, people recovering from operations, people with bad backs who can't carry shopping too far etc etc.

And according to your logic anyone who has felt the 'need' for a space by the door is entitled to get up a petition to have such spaces specially reserved. That would want to be some massive door to accommodate all those spaces.

I think part of the problem is that although, yes, it is a marketing gimmick, it also responds to a very real need to allow extra space to either move baby seats in and out of cars, or to safely fasten children (often up to the age of 12 if they are small) into car seats.

During these halcyon days of yore when we all managed without them, there was also no law stating that we had to safely restrain our children in what are often very large bulky car seats, many of which are fiddly to fasten without being able to fully open the door and lean in sideways.

Of course we all manage without them, but I have to admit to there being several occasions when i've been parked in a normal size parking space and had, by necessity, my car door pushed right up against the side of the 4x4 parked next to me, just to allow enough room to get my DD or DS safely strapped in. I wasn't happy about it, and I doubt the other car owner would have if they'd seen it, but I had no other choice but to turf my unpredictable autistic toddler DD and baby DS out of the car while I reversed out into the middle of the car park to create more space!

That's not down to me being difficult, but purely to the fact that many car parks use old outdated dimensions to determine their spaces, that don't tally with the increasingly large sizes of the vehicles we drive.

I wouldn't sign this petition as I do think it's entitled and unrealistic, but I would happily sign a petition to rethink and revise the standard width of car park spaces so that P&C spaces are no longer needed.

It used to be the other way around. Elderly people were treated with kindness and respect by shopkeepers, offered a chair to sit on while their groceries were being packed and totted up etc.

But the attitude of some big supermarkets nowadays is 'feck those old pensioners who only hobble in to buy a box of tea bags and a piece of fish for dinner. The big bucks is with the young parents buying lots of stuff for growing families, so we'll keep them sweet instead'.

And then some of the young parents, who can't see through the marketing ploy, get all precious and uppity about these spaces, stamping their feet and demanding them as a right

No one said these spaces needed to be near the door. When I lived in London the ones in our supermarket weren't near the door, people still abused them because they're wider and easier. People going on about them being near the door are the people trying to find a reason (for some reason) to dispute them being helpful and reserved for those that need them. Also no one is saying they should be instead of having more for other needs. It doesn't need to be instead of. Other needs can surely petition as well.

Loads of posters have said that they would have no problem with these spaces if they were moved elsewhere in the car park. People are not complaining about them being beside the door because they want to dispute their helpfulness to parents of young children. They are expressing the view that it is also 'unhelpful' to elderly people and others in need, if these spaces then become inaccessible to everyone except parents with small children.

Sorry, my reply was to tomato.

Actually some people upthread have said that they do need to be near the door because they can't be expected to navigate through a car park, or even walk round a long pedestrianised walkway to the back of the car park, with their children. Presumably these people never leave the house other than to go to the supermarket as they clearly can't deal with roads and children at the same time.

I think it would be much better to ditch the P&C name. You could provide disabled spaces as now (possibly more of them) and a selection of 'accessible spaces' near the door. The signage could be like on trains and buses reminding people to leave these for people who need them more than they do (and the understanding should probably be that simply having small children isn't actually a priority). They'd probably be less abused (although still abused given than some people are unbelievable wankers) than P&C spaces because many people don't think it matters if they slightly inconvenience a mum taking her toddler to tesco, but might feel differently about people on crutches and the elderly.

Then, at the back of the car park, with a pathway to the door (which may be long and indirect) they could have wider spaces that are open to anyone who feels they need them. Most people wouldn't bother driving round to them and then walking so the people who feel they really can't cope with shopping without one should generally be able to get one.

It would mean that parents of young children would need to stop imagining themselves to be a needy and disadvantaged group in society and realise that just having small children doesn't mean that you require a giant space next to the supermarket door.

"complete hassle and come close to scratching their car (don't care if I do)"

It's comments like the above on these sorts of threads that make certain people look entitled.

And, yes, they could increase the size of all the spaces. But I suspect there will still be a group of special snowflakes who think they require special spaces and are more important than everyone else.

When I had DS1 in 1994 P&C spaces were few and far between. I don't think there were any when DN was born in 1992, but they were in car seats and we managed just fine getting them in and out of the car without bashing the cars parked next to us.

This sense of entitlement some parents have now has spilled over in to many aspects of society imo. They don't see why they shouldn't use the disabled toilet or the wheelchair space on the bus. They can't seek to work out how to manage without these "perks".

ilovesooty it's perfectly "charming" - these Chelsea tractors park well over their space so chuffed with themselves at taking advantage of a narrow car parked well within its space- I then have to take about half an hour carefully trying to wrangle baby/buggy/shopping into car with a door that will barely open, thanks to them. You are mad if you honestly think I give 2 hoots if their car then receives a scratch or 2 during that process, caused entirely by their own selfish/laziness?!

Car parks I mainly use that have the parent/child spaces are also further away from shop- have no issue whatsoever with this, its not because most mums/dads with young kids are lazy and cant be arsed to walk a few steps further, it just makes life incredibly easier if we manage to get a larger space, thanks mainly to so many idiot drivers who cant park their car within the space they are in. Shops want to encourage families to visit/spend/stay longer so it all makes sense. I also agree the parent/child spaces should only be for kids young enough to still need buggy etc, as this is the reason you are grateful for the extra space.

Yes, I think moving the extra wide spaces from the door would really weed out the parents who genuinely just want a bit of extra wriggle room to lift car seats and toddlers out of the car; and those self entitled parents who want to glide straight to the door of the supermarket because their need is so much greater than anyone else's.