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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

HELP! 5yr old is sexually abusing my Ds?!

109 replies

notnownoonoo · 20/05/2015 21:05

I really need some help as I'm so upset and confused right now!

This started near the beginning of the yr around end of jan/feb when my son told me that one of his friends in reception kept pulling his pants and trousers down to look at his bum and willy, this then escalated to he keeps watching me in the toilets to look at me and won't stop.

Teachers told me they couldn't speak to other child's mum unless they witnessed the behaviour. I started keeping a record and about a month ago i thought it had pretty much stopped, ds wasn't informing me of any more incidents.

Then today we went with our ds to have a medical circumcision (this was a factor in our concerns regarding behaviour) all went well until on the way home ds told us he had bad news, then he told us "x child keeps tickling my willy and i don't like it" he further told us it had been happening all the time and he had told the teacher who told the boy to stop but he won't.

That is a brief overview but I am completely confused. Is this sexual abuse? it makes my son feel upset and concerned.. but the perpetrator is 5?! also no-one has seen this behaviour will he be believed? should i question him further about it?

I'm planning to speak to the headteacher tomorrow to report it and have rang nspcc for advice, they asked me to call back to speak to a supervisor/practitioner and said it is serious and needs to be explored and reported to children's services as a concern for both children!

But i will be basically reporting another parent (who im friendly with but havn't told her what's happened) for investigation on just my son's word.. i wish someone had seen this behaviour as he has been lying recently but why would he lie about this?

What action should i expect the head to take and should this be addressed as sexual abuse? could my son be negatively affected by it? so many questions

OP posts:

Original poster

notnownoonoo · 20/05/2015 22:18

the loos at his school are literally just in the corridor between the 2 classes and kids just walk in and out of there there's very little monitoring.

OP posts:

Original poster

notnownoonoo · 20/05/2015 22:19

and yes i'll contact social services tomorrow.

OP posts:

Sleepyfergus · 20/05/2015 22:20

When my dd was in last year of nursery (so aged 4.5) I was called in at pick up time to see the nursery manager as she had to speak to me about something that had been raised by another child.

Apparently, my dd had acted inappropriately to another girl, asked to look and touched her on the bottom. I was astounded. But it was her word against my dds, it wasn't witnessed and all the nursery could do was inform each parent, advise the other parents that we had been spoken to (and vice versa).

I don't actually believe that my dd did anything of the sort. She has no inclination for that type of behaviour and when I carefully asked here about bottoms and knickers etc, she had no idea what I was on about and I know when she's lying!

Anyway, the point of my post was the at the nursery made sure each parent was informed, and that was logged. I don't know if they have to do this because of law or if it was nursery policy. But I'm shocked that the school feel they cannot speak to the other boys parents jus because thy haven't witnessed anything.

Good luck, this has gone beyond acceptable and I would be hauling the school over the coals for their dismissive attitude.

Nicknacky · 20/05/2015 22:21

My daughter has had a similar experience which I found out about last week. I spoke to the school and they didn't hesitate to act even though it was only "her word".

Don't let it lie. Your main concern is your child and you need to be certain he is protected at school.

Original poster

notnownoonoo · 20/05/2015 22:36

i should have said something and pressed that the teacher did more when she said that.. but i've been so confused about this happening at this age, if it was an older child/adult it would have been clear cut but i've been so confused by the child's age how they could be doing these things in such a way just want to hug my ds and not let go how is he going to understand about his rights to privacy plus he now has to cope with the change down there too

OP posts:

Nicknacky · 20/05/2015 22:50

The boy in my daughters incident is 7 so obviously a bit older. My attitude is that all I can do is bring it to the schools attention and let them deal with it a as they see fit. Although I have been quite happy with how they have dealt with it so far.

I agree with a previous poster who said that the police would report it to social services and take no action themselves.

my2cents · 20/05/2015 23:11

I would definitely raise with SS and ask teacher what safeguarding measures they are putting in place.

My 5 and 3 year old DS will often try to pull each other's pants down because they find bums and willies hilarious. But if either of my children was doing what you describe I would definitely want to be told. If it's innocent then it can he explained to the child that it's not ok, and if not then that can be dealt with appropriately.

Also, and sorry if this seems insensitive, but my oldest DS underwent a medical circumcision and beforehand his willy looked a bit different - is there any chance the other child has noticed a difference and that's the reason for the interest (although clearly it's still not ok)?

LondonRocks · 20/05/2015 23:21

Whatever you do, do not assume he's lying.

Children can abuse other children. Yes, they may also be victims, but that does not mean it's not abuse.

Pursue it, OP. I speak from experience, sadly.

notmyusualMNname123 · 20/05/2015 23:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HowDoesThatWork · 20/05/2015 23:45

Your school is failing in their safeguarding duty.

Teachers do not/should not go into toilets to 'watch', so there can never be any teacher witness (and clearly touching/fiddling/talking is not going to happen if a teacher was there).

The head or person responsible for safeguarding concerns in school should have spoken to both children to found out what was happening. There is a legal obligation for professionals to report concerns.

Talk to school again, maybe after getting advice from NSPCC and Social Services.

WienerDiva · 21/05/2015 00:10

Just going to echo everyone else. The school is being too relaxed, and like a pp has already highlighted, they won't see it as they don't go in the loos.

Please escalate this go the sake of your son and the other child.

Happybodybunny12 · 21/05/2015 00:38

The school safeguarding proceedures are not fit for purpose op.

This is absolutely almost unbelievable in the climate of today.

As a cm I have robust safeguarding policies and such behaviour is a definatly red flag.

Personally I would contact SS ASAP and keep my child off school until it's addressed. They should inform the police.

I would also contact Ofsted as they need an urgent inspection of their proceedures.

OhWotIsItThisTime · 21/05/2015 02:15

The school are being terrible.

Putting aside the issue of what they told you is utter bollocks, how hard can it be to monitor that kid's toilet trips? A simple 'put your hand up and ask' school policy would sort it.

If I were you, I'd be livid. They've basically said your DS has to put up with it unless the other boy does it in front of an adult. the school is failing in its duty of care to your DS, this boy and any other kids he's doing it to and any he will do it to in the future.

ThreeSpike · 21/05/2015 06:57

Move him to another school.

LindyHemming · 21/05/2015 07:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Singsongsung · 21/05/2015 07:15

The school absolutely do not have to witness anything to intervene. The school are totally failing in their safeguarding duty by not passing it on. Their job is not to investigate at all but to pass it on to Children's Services for them to investigate. Your child is vulnerable here but as others have said, the perpetrator is also. I am astounded at the attitude of the school who are probably fearing all the wrong things...

bigTillyMint · 21/05/2015 07:19

*Your school is failing in their safeguarding duty.

Teachers do not/should not go into toilets to 'watch', so there can never be any teacher witness (and clearly touching/fiddling/talking is not going to happen if a teacher was there).

Talk to school again, maybe after getting advice from NSPCC and Social Services.*

This

Justusemyname · 21/05/2015 07:20

I'm so sorry your son has been abused.

My advice - remove him from school and send a letter to school and the governors to say why.

stop asking your son about what has happened.
ring NSPCC.
ring the police for advice and to log this.
don't talk to the mother and I would go so far as to say don't discuss this with anyone else at school.
don't let this drop.

Phoenix0x0 · 21/05/2015 07:26

Speak to SS and the NSPCC.

Also, it is not too late to contact the school. However, this time I would speak directly to the HT. Personally, I would not only mention these incidents (and how you had been logging them) but also the fact that the teacher who said 'it's only his word' was being unprofessional.

This is a safe guarding issue and like PP, they are failing their duty of care to both your son and the other boy (alarm bells are ringing with me also).

After, speaking to the HT I would also write a letter to them and the chair of Governors. They all must reply (OFSTED will look at this) and the letter will be kept on file.

PurpleAlert · 21/05/2015 07:30

I am astonished at the school's response to this. Poor safeguarding is an area that can plunge a school into immediate special measures were OFSTED to find out.

I am not a fan of OFSTED ( teacher) but actually am with them on this. Safeguarding should be the number one priority in any school.

Original poster

notnownoonoo · 21/05/2015 07:31

thank you for all your advice, i will deal with this all guns blazing today! I have updated my written records and will submit to the head, ringing nspcc beforehand to make sure i know what response is appropriate and pass details to ss, will ask about safeguarding and note who the people in charge if this are and what actions will be put in place to protect my son.

OP posts:

Original poster

notnownoonoo · 21/05/2015 07:35

I agree with the evidence issue, this happens in the toilets and as my son has said previously and today it happens in the big kids playground, so i know from experience of telling teachers about problems at lunchtime that they just leave supervising to the lunchtime monitors who seem to be not be very competent at supervising!

It seems they should also revise their toilet procedures. To the PP that asked about his foreskin before hand, possibly that could be the case it did look slightly different and he had some problems with weeing so he mifght have picked up on that but no it's not ok my ds is quite sensitive about his privacy and can lack confidence so he will be affected badly if it carries on (as would any child!)

OP posts:

Original poster

notnownoonoo · 21/05/2015 07:40

i know a couple of pp said to be careful about asking him about it but i just had a short lighthearted conversation with him this morning because yesterday we literally were just in the car after a long, tiring day at the hospital. Also before when i spoke to his teacher they said to log exactly when/where it happened so i broached it gently.

He said that it happens in the playground when the teachers are with someone else, and when he showed me on a teddy what he does he made a grabbing/tickling motion. he asks him to stop and he says he will but he's lying because he doesn't stop. He said he does it to other children as well. So this is definitely very serious, i havn't spoken to the mother or other parents about this and won't.

OP posts:

FrancesNiadova · 21/05/2015 07:45

The head should phone SS, but you can also call, anyone can.
When you call just say to the person answering that you want to make a disclosure, anonymous if you like.
I know that you've said that you'll go to the school, but I'd bypass them & go straight to SS. School would have blown my trust by now TBH, & I wouldn't want to let the other child go another day without getting some protection & support from the right people.
Please protect that child op

wishingchair · 21/05/2015 07:46

Of course they don't have to witness it. How would any bullying of any kind ever be dealt with. It all tends to be done in secret.

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