HELP! 5yr old is sexually abusing my Ds?!

[notnownoonoo]

I really need some help as I'm so upset and confused right now!

This started near the beginning of the yr around end of jan/feb when my son told me that one of his friends in reception kept pulling his pants and trousers down to look at his bum and willy, this then escalated to he keeps watching me in the toilets to look at me and won't stop.

Teachers told me they couldn't speak to other child's mum unless they witnessed the behaviour. I started keeping a record and about a month ago i thought it had pretty much stopped, ds wasn't informing me of any more incidents.

Then today we went with our ds to have a medical circumcision (this was a factor in our concerns regarding behaviour) all went well until on the way home ds told us he had bad news, then he told us "x child keeps tickling my willy and i don't like it" he further told us it had been happening all the time and he had told the teacher who told the boy to stop but he won't.

That is a brief overview but I am completely confused. Is this sexual abuse? it makes my son feel upset and concerned.. but the perpetrator is 5?! also no-one has seen this behaviour will he be believed? should i question him further about it?

I'm planning to speak to the headteacher tomorrow to report it and have rang nspcc for advice, they asked me to call back to speak to a supervisor/practitioner and said it is serious and needs to be explored and reported to children's services as a concern for both children!

But i will be basically reporting another parent (who im friendly with but havn't told her what's happened) for investigation on just my son's word.. i wish someone had seen this behaviour as he has been lying recently but why would he lie about this?

What action should i expect the head to take and should this be addressed as sexual abuse? could my son be negatively affected by it? so many questions

I would change schools. Period. Do all the rest, report, escalate for sure, but take your child out of that situation and arrange some counselling. I would demand that the school assist to find you an alternative place for him somewhere else on the threat of legal action - they have a duty of care to your son.

Firstly, you have done the right thing. Based on what your son has reported it does sound as though this other child MAY be displaying some sexualised behaviour. It is not "sexual abuse" because the age of criminal responsibility in this country is 10, so a 5 year old is not deemed capable of commiting a crime and cannot be a "perpetrator". I'm not trying to minimise the potential seriousness of the situation, it's just not the correct terminology. Social services will be concerned about where the child has learned these behaviours (if indeed your sons reporting of these behaviours is accurate) and whether he may be a victim of abuse as well as wanting to protect your son and other children at the school from witnessing his innapropriate behaviours. It is not at all unusual for children at this age to be curious about their own and each others bodies and engage in exploration such as looking at or touching each others genitals. However, your DS has said he doesn't like it and it seems to have caused him some anxiety so that needs to be addressed. Social services will need to determine whether this boys behaviour is normal childhood curiosity or whether it is an indication that he has seen/been subjected to something inappropriate himself.

Forgot to add i would be tempted to keep ds off school if they cant keep ds safe.

Loud loud loud alarm bells and safety concerns are screaming in my ears.
The teachers are saying they can't approach the other child's mum unless the witness something which obviously tells you if none of the teachers have witnessed such happenings the children must be occasionally unsupervised. I find it almost impossible to believe that not 1 staff member has noticed anything untoward but either way it's equally as worrying. The fact that they are walking around with their eyes shut.
The children Are not being watched
Or they could be lying. No senario is ideAl.
Also they say they have to witness it before they intervene so what would happen with a disclosure from a child.. Would it be sorry..... nothing we can do unless we witness it.
I'm no expert something As serious as this I would never profess to be, but if the school are refusing to listen to your well justified concerns go to the police. That might make them listen.
I'm not saying this little boy had been abused. He may just be curious about other children's bodies. It's not uncommon or abnormal. However then again he could be suffering abuse. I wouldn't want to take that chance of doing nothing. But I hope to God you are wrong op.

Those suggesting OP go to the Police, they won't be able to take action other than informing social services as no crime has been committed. A 5 year old cannot commit a crime according to the law of this country. This is a safeguarding matter not a police matter and as such it needs to be referred to social services. The school should have done this already but as they are not willing to take responsibility the OP needs to report it, if the NSPCC haven't already done so.

oh god.. thank you for your replies i'm just so upset as as a pp said my son's been prodded and poked down there and had a traumatic time and now this as well.. I will speak to him further tomorrow and speak to the head/nspcc and children's services.

I don't know if it's related but it came to my mind when i was thinking right now about his recent behaviour and if it could be connected, we have had a funny thing the past week or so where he keeps saying that blood comes out of his willy when he wees. Now we have gone repeatedly with him to the toilet and not seen this, and have told the drs obv at the hospital they weren't too concerned, but he says this happens at school a lot. Could this be connected? he has been very grumpy and detached with me recently as well, ignoring, not wanting to engage etc..

Teacher here. School are failing. This isn't acceptable. Whether or not your son's word can be proved, if these two children were in my class I'd be very proactively protecting both children and ensuring I knew exactly where they were and they were supervised.

Completely agree to ring SS front desk, you can often run the situation past them without naming names and they will advise on what to do, but the school ignoring is not an option. Ofsted would not be impressed with this, at all. You can ask to see the safeguarding policy. I would also be tempted to take ds out of school until I had spoken to the head and there was a plan in place to ensure this was going to be thoroughly managed.

Please don't worry about getting the 5 year old into major trouble - whether or not this is intentional or as it sounds from your son's pov, you're protecting that child as much as your own.

Don't ask him anything else. Call the police. Keep him off school until they start doing their jobs.

Just seen that your son is reporting blood in his urine. There could be a number of reasons for this but it is definitely worth mentioning when you speak to children's services. Even if there is not really any blood (you mention that you haven't seen any) your son is clearly attempting to communicate his discomfort and distress.

Can I suggest that you report what you know to SS and not question him futher. I did this approach when my DS told me he was been bullied..That way they know it is his words and not some you have planted.

I would also inform the school and tell them that you will be keeping him off until they address this matter from a CP standpoint..

I also second keeping him off school until they step up and take responsibility for what is happening within their walls.

No the other little boy will not get into trouble. He's under criminal age of responsibility in any case.
Heaven forbid but he could also be a victim, which needs addressing.
You've heard it from a teacher that the school are failing in their duty of care so straight from the horses mouth.
About your poor ds been bleeding from his willy. I don't want to speculate but please take him to your GP. Hopefully it's not serious but again you do not or rather can not take that risk, plus if it is due to what has been happening you will have medical evidence. That the school will have to take notice of.
Love and support

As someone who was a child who was mildly abused, it was by an adult though. But reached out to a teacher who then told my parents, who spoke to my aunt (it was her friends husband) and all decided together I was lying and had made it up. He then went on to very badly abuse his three adopted children (who he was allowed to adopt after I told them) and a little girl up to p7 in the school he worked in. I'd do whatever it takes as your sons mum to show him you believe him and to safe guard him. It still makes me so angry my mum didn't believe me. That little boy could be being abused. I'd GO to the school tomoro to talk to his teacher and the head teacher and I'd also contact ss so this can be investigated properly to make sure it isn't more than just child play and nothing is happening to your sons friend by an adult.

he's off atm anyway because he's just had his operation today but tomorrow's last day of term anyway before the holiday so not good timing really.. i take it ss would want to speak to my son/me?

Iliveinalighthouse the blood could have been due to his foreskin condition but if he tells me it happens again now that he's had his procedure i will go straight to gp. I haven't ignored that i've told about 4 medical professionals but honestly none of them were too concerned!

Jen1610 sorry for what you went through, you're right i'll make sure he knows i'm here for him and believe him and try and reassure him.

This is a very useful tool to help the school think about what is and isn't appropriate sexualised behaviour in children. The behaviour of this little boy is firmly outside the realms of appropriate.

I'm so sorry OP. As others have said, your concerns are extremely serious and the school are completely remiss in their response. It actually beggars belief that they told you "we can't do anything, it's only his word". Please report it. I feel for you all.

Oh sorry op. Didn't know about his foreskin condition. You obviously mentioned it but I mustn't have seen it. X

I did a course this week on this (teacher).

Call SS and ask for the child protection duty officer. Report it.

If school are not listening, remind them that they have a duty of care for BOTH children.

a 5 year old displaying this behaviour needs help as the chances are the the poor thing is being abuses or has witnessed abuse himself.

you need to contact the police and social services for both boys sakes!

I'm a teacher and I just cannot imagine simply responding with 'its only his word' in this situation? Surely the school must be logging this in some way? Have the teachers spoken to the boy concerned, has he just denied it?

the last communication i had with his teacher (he has 2 which makes communication slighty trickier) was she said that they had done circle time about not watching each other in the toilets, they had told my son to ask for a teacher to go with him to the toilet if he wanted, they had told the headteacher about it and asked for the toilet doors to be raised and asked me to create and submit a log of incidents. they said because they didn't have witnesses or evidence then this would serve as a verbal evidence

Don't say anything to the mother before speaking to NSPCC/SS. If the other boy is being abused at home this would alert the parents who could be the abusers.

They havn't spoken to his mum or him, all i know about is circle time where they spoke to all children and then my sons's told me of times that he's gone to the teacher to tell them what's happened and they've told him not to do that.. but it doesn't stop him. This boy has also intimidated and threatened my son previously in order to stop him telling teachers and physically prevented him too.

You must take this further and DO NOT discuss with the parent of the 5 year old. If this is true he may well be being abused himself and is as much a victim - discussing with his parents may put him in danger. Social services need to be involved.