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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to want to take my 5yo abroad on holiday

103 replies

webman25 · 20/05/2015 21:04

Hi,

I have a dilemma with my daughter's mother, and I wish for honest opinions on the subject so either I can see the light, or the mum.

To cut a long story short, I wish to take my 5yo abroad, preferably somewhere hot where we can both enjoy. I can only afford one holiday a year, and would love to take her at the same time. However, her mum won't allow it.

She's given various reasons as to why, ie she would be too far away if something happens (bare in mind she has gone on her own holiday and left my daughter with me before) and it would be too hot for her, my daughter can't stand the heat. I must admit, my daughter has been known to be a right grump when it gets hot here, but where I plan to take her there are swimming pools and air con - . And theres' so much more to do to take her mind off the heat.

Now the mother will let me take her on holiday in the UK, and she allows me to see her every weekend - this is probably the only topic we have been at loggerheads about.

I don't think it's fair on both my daughter and me that because of the mums insecurities, we cannot have the experience of going away every summer. If its important ive never missed a maintenance payment, I do see her regularly and my names on the birth certificate. Basically, I feel I have earnt my right to go 50/50 on all things like this.

Please, am I right to be upset that I cannot take my own daughter abroad on holiday, or should I just pipe down as the mum is quite within her right to refuse this?

Many thanks in advance, Adam

OP posts:
SilverBlur · 21/05/2015 04:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
webman25 · 21/05/2015 19:08

Thanks to everyone whos offered their thoughts on this.

Im British, and have no intention of taking DD (ive learnt the acronyms) away and staying there. Just a week away.

Apparently I can't take her abroad, no mention of abroad to hot countries, but maybe I should get that cleared with the mum.

The heat thing I do kind of agree, but the last time I knew her to get grotty in the heat was a hot summers day in the middle of London. She's a whole year older now and she may be a lot better. If I take her away, and she gets grotty, at least I know she definately don't like the warm, regardless of where we are.

The being away from her thing, this is unfair as the mum has gone away to a different country and DD has stayed with me in the UK, so she cannot use this excuse.

My main reason for choosing a hot country is not to be selfish, because I want to go there. I can go there without her. Its because I can remember at 5 going on Harry Shaw holidays to Spain in the summer holidays and loving it. I want her to have the same experience.

I have already taken her on a UK holiday. We had a great week, don't get me wrong, but it cost a fortune for what we got. Luckily I have family who live abroad and can thus get a cheap holiday away. It;s more affordable basically. The mum thinks its selfish to take her abroad to save money, is she right?

Thanks all again!!

OP posts:
Toffeelatteplease · 21/05/2015 19:32

You are not wrong but how right you are doesn't really matter.

Mum may have good reasons to object she may not. Unless you care enough to take this to court it really doesn't matter how right or wrong she is you still need her agreement.

If you try and reassure her she may change her mind but then she may not.

So there it is really. Easy route is taking your holidays in the UK. How much difficulty are you prepared to take on for a foreign holiday

GozerTheGozerian · 21/05/2015 19:40

Is her mum likely to go abroad again? If so couldn't you ask to take your daughter somewhere then? If her mum is choosing to go away anyway and leave her with you, surely it wouldn't make much difference to her?

Original poster
webman25 · 21/05/2015 20:07

You're right toffeelatteplease. If I'm honest, I think the major bug bearer I have here is that I need the mum's permission. If the tables were turned, and I was against the mum taking dd abroad - she could take her regardless. It seems really unfair.

I guess that's just life and I just have to accept it. I posted this just after the mum said "Everyone agrees with me [that I shouldn't take dd away] so on your own there love" during another request to take dd away.

OP posts:
Cherryblossomsinspring · 21/05/2015 20:39

YANBU. You are her father and just as I would support her mum's right to take your daughter on a lovely holiday experience, I fully support your right to the same. Posters saying YABU because is hot....crazy argument. Nay be I should leave my 1 and 3 yr old at home when we go camping in the south of France this summer. Holidays are such a wonderful time to spend with your kids at every age, not least when they are little and gleeful about the tiniest things. I'm sorry you are being denied that lovely experience.

APlaceOnTheCouch · 21/05/2015 20:48

Do you not have equal PR? I might be mistaken but I thought any parent could object to the other taking their DC out of the country unless they had put legal provision in place by an arrangements order. So you could stop your ex from taking your DD abroad.

I don't know if pointing that out to your ex would escalate the situation or make her reconsider whether she is being UR?

Personally I don't think it's being selfish to base a holiday decision on finances. Everyone does it. But your ex seems to have so many different objections that I wonder if there are lots of issues underlying her holiday decision.

SylvaniansKeepGettingHoovered · 21/05/2015 20:51

I don't think the heat is the main problem, I would bet the mother is just anxious about her 5yr old child being in a different country. 5 yrs old is still so young to go abroad without her mum.

I know the mother has gone abroad leaving the child with you, but that is different - the child was at home, in a familiar country. When you go abroad there's no familiar doctor's surgery, there's a language barrier, the food is different, the heat, etc. all those things.

Original poster
webman25 · 21/05/2015 20:55

APlaceOnTheCouch, we are not married,but my name is on the birth certificate. No legal provisions are in place.

So from what you're saying I could refuse ex from taking her abroad? I once read that mum's can refuse dads cannot.

Besides, if ex wants to take DD away for a holiday no way will I refuse. It would be a good experience for DD I'm just desperate for the opportunity myself.

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 21/05/2015 20:55

If the tables were turned, and I was against the mum taking dd abroad - she could take her regardless. It seems really unfair. Could she? I always get a letter from DH (who I am married to) when I take DD abroad and have been asked for it, and her birth certificate, on occasion.

I was the kid who hated the heat and was dragged abroad by my beach loving parents repeatedly. Cornwall was my favorite. In case you're looking for suggestions...

MrsTerryPratchett · 21/05/2015 20:56

I once read that mum's can refuse dads cannot. Were you reading a F4J pamphlet?

Original poster
webman25 · 21/05/2015 20:57

MrsTerryPratchett I'm not sure I understand your post totally sorry. But it seems I got the wrong impression on my rights.

My DD may well prefer good old Cornwall to an overseas holiday, but she won't know til she tries it.

OP posts:
chipsandpeas · 21/05/2015 20:57

does your DD have a passport....has her mum taken her abroad

maybe its something her mum wants to do first

Original poster
webman25 · 21/05/2015 20:59

MrsTerryPratchett, I can't remember the source to be honest. Sorry

OP posts:
Original poster
webman25 · 21/05/2015 21:01

chipsandpeas. No passport, need mum's signature and I'm not gonna get that for coffee!!!

not fair if I have to wait for her to take her first, she's had plenty of opportunities. If this was the reason for the refusal I'd be pretty angry. that would be very petty surely?

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 21/05/2015 21:04

Possibly you've got two things muddled. What is important is whether you have parental responsibility. Obviously, mother's don't need additional evidence to have this (because of the giving birth thing) but fathers do. If you have have PR, you have the same rights and responsibilities WRT taking the child out of the country a mother does. You're on the birth cert, you have PR. In which case www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad have a look.

Shakey1500 · 21/05/2015 21:08

I don't think it's unreasonable at all. She might absolutely love it. Did you say you have family there also? Good opportunity to spend time with extended family as well I'd say. What would it be, hotel? Self catering? All inclusive?

Original poster
webman25 · 21/05/2015 21:10

MrsTerryPratchett thank you for the advice and link. I guess thats restored my faith in the justice system.

so at the moment, until ex changes her mind, if I wish to take DD away I could look at legal proceedings. However, this could have other repercussions, like not being able to see DD pretty much when I like. Not worth it is it?

OP posts:
Original poster
webman25 · 21/05/2015 21:13

Shakey1500 I was able to use my parents timeshare this year, so the plan was to take her there as I'd only have to pay for flights. It was self catering. I'd also like to take her to my grandad in Turkey in October, as summer holidays would be too hot for her there. We'd stay in his flat.

OP posts:
RagingJellyBean · 21/05/2015 21:38

Why do people keep saying the child can't be away from her mum for so long?
hello OP already said the mother has disappeared off abroad and left the kid at home so clearly that's not the issue.

YANBU, not at all. I think the mother is daft & silly after sharing PR 50/50 for so long to suddenly deny you something you are so entitled to. I hate that mothers have the final say, and are regarded as the more "important" parent of the two. I couldn't disagree more. If both names are on the certificate, you provide for your daughter & you share equal PR for her, nobody has priority here if you want to take her away you should damn well be able to.

And to the PP who said it was "concerning" about his disregard for the child's hatred of heat - get a fucking grip

Selks · 21/05/2015 21:39

I think if I were you, I would try to be both assertive but reasonable about this....the approach I would take if I was in your shoes would be to state to your DDs mum that you have PR and that you have the right to take your DD on holiday abroad and intend to do so, but then go on to detail how you will take care of DD so that being somewhere hot will not be too much for her, e.g. that you will always use suncream and hat, limit time outdoors in the hottest time of the day, let DD have a nap if she needs one etc etc, and maybe (if possible) go to your chosen destination at a time of year when it is not so hot, maybe half term. And that DD can ring home whenever she wants.
So asserting your rights but offering reassurance and a little compromise, kind of thing.
You sound like a lovely Dad. No reason in my opinion why you shouldn't press for this if you feel DD would enjoy it.
Although saying the above, do make sure that DD is really old enough to enjoy this. if she really can't cope with heat right now it wouldn't kill you to wait a couple of years, when she would probably get a lot more out of it.

Selks · 21/05/2015 21:42

Actually Turkey in October sounds perfect, and Turkish people (well, all the ones I've met anyway) love young children Smile

RagingJellyBean · 21/05/2015 21:43

I went to Turkey in October last year - it was chilly at night and during the day I was comfortable with a light cardigan on.

Perfect time/place to go away.

PtolemysNeedle · 21/05/2015 22:31

Your ex is being very unreasonable, and selfish. Her reasons are all about her, not your dd. It is difficult to know that your young child is in a foreign country without you, so she deserves some understanding and plenty of communication while you're away, but she has no valid reason to prevent her child having a holiday with her dad.

My ex and I got around these issues by going away together when ours were little, is there any chance you could get on well enough to enjoy a trip together?

Toffeelatteplease · 22/05/2015 02:39

I think in the end that is the point.

If you took it to court (and you are right that there is no other reason than you say), you would probably get the permission.

But at what cost to good working relationship with mum? I have a very poor working relationship with ex and actually I think a good one is way more beneficial to a child than a foreign holiday.

Bitter pill to swallow though

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