AIBU or is my neighbor

[deliverdaniel]

I really can't work out whether IABU because I am feeling baseline resentment about my neighbor (we have had problems in the past which I have posted about) or whether this is fair.

We live in a rented flat, part of a conversion which is two flats- we are upstairs, our neighbor is downstairs. SHe doesn't like us, complains constantly at us about all kinds of things- hates our kids etc etc. We are both renting with the same landlord.

there is large front garden, jointly used by both flats, which my kids used to play in- it was previously kind of a mess- not terrible, but a bit overgrown and the kids enjoyed playing in it. The neighbor enjoys gardening and has recently dug up the whole thing and planted a lot of plants and made it into a more well kept, fancy garden. She didn't tell me she was going to do this, or ask me what I thought or anything. What she has done looks nice, and I have been appreciative of her hard work- told her that she has done a really good job etc. But now she is saying that our DC can no longer play there because of all the work she has done to it, and that they might ruin the plants. Yesterday she shouted at 19 month old DS for running in there. AIBU to think that she doesn't have the right to do this? I monitor them carefully and make sure they don't damage anything, but tbh i would rather it was still overgrown and they didn't have to worry about spoiling things there and think that this is our shared space and we have just as much right to it as she does (this last bit is technically true according to the lease- just wondering if it is also generally 'right' in 'not being a total dick' terms.) I don't mind that she fixed it, and it does look nice, but I feel as though that doesn't somehow give her ownership of it, and the right to tell my DCs off. Or am I being unfair on her after all her hard work to expect her to put up with my DCs still runniing around and should take them to play elsehwere? Would appreciate opinions! thank you!

If she's destroyed all the playing space to take over the garden then I'd speak to the landlord. Let them sort it out either via insisting she put it back or redressing the rent imbalance since she has effectively removed your use of the garden.

Apropos of nothing I think your kids would probably really like a keyboard and some drums.

Lol jengnr
Saucepans and wooden spoons make excellent drums. Especially for those early morning jamming sessions

Wait wait wait, SHE banned noisy toys in YOUR flat?

Practice your face if she winges and have a lovely day in your lovely shared garden.

She's being utterly unreasonable.

Sorry, there may be an answer up the thread... Has the entire garden been turned over or is there still grass?

The entire garden seems to have been turned over so no grass left. If that is the case, however lovely it looks it is not reasonable when it is a shared garden.

FWIW some neighbours are just bat shit crazy. My neighbour at our previous house was a real nutter and moaned about everything. She complained to the council about work being done on the house during business hours. But also at the weekend - when were we supposed to do the work? She moaned about new born crying at any time of day. She was positively gleeful about not having a litter tray and that her cats didn't go in her garden (no they used ours instead). Moaned about us putting nappies down the toilet (who would do that? ) as she was watching me hang washable nappies on the line. Every word out of her mouth was complaint about something And not just to us or about us ( many over heard conversations as she had a very loud voice). Had to pity her in the end as to live life in such a way must be awful. She had no compassion only an attitude that everyone should be compassionate to her but she didn't need to be. not saying All her complaints were unfounded though.

I say all of the above to illustrate that you really can't compromise with people who don't want to.

I'd talk to the landlord and get them to sort it out.

Can I just point out that:
a - it's their garden too as they live there
b - if she didn't want plants or planting destroyed then she should not have fiddled with the shared space
c - you would be well within your rights to remove all the plants and put it down to lawn as that suits your family's needs - she should not have done the shared space makeover without consultation with you in the first place.

I'd point out the above to her and suggest she either puts it back to how it was or accepts that the kids are going to play in their garden and she will not be shouting at my kids again for playing in their own shared space.

I think she should be told never again to reprimand your children - she speaks to you, not them. If she's allowed to get away with it once, she'll never leave them alone.

Does she like to sit out in the garden herself.....maybe she feels as though that was taken away from her when the children played out? If she does like to sit out occasionally perhaps a more workable way of 'sharing' the space would be to share the times that it's used....i.e. agree certain periods of the day when the children won't use it so that she can sit in peace with her cup of tea? I know you shouldn't have to do that but it might ease the situation - and the upside is that if she refuses at least then you can just let the children play out without feeling 'unreasonable' - stuff her.

In reality she probably just thinks she's more entitled because she has the ground floor flat which, of course, is bollox but whatever the reason, the plants are clearly there to make the garden a no-go zone for your children and so I wouldn't worry too much about them. YANBU

As a land lord if my tenant removed a scruffy patch of grass and put in a huge flower bed I would be livid. And they would be returning it to how it was. I like gardens but she hasn't thought about the maintenance issue if she were to move. For this reason the land lord is very likely to be on your side and I would go to them directly.

This is exactly the sort of problem which should be directed to a LL, and you're lucky that s/he is LL for both of you, because it's a simple matter of mediation, with no "houseowner"/ tenant social and legal divisions to heat things up.

Both of your leases include use of the garden, but your right and access are being infringed upon, so the LL must put that right, either physically or financially, by discounting your rent (or losing you as tenants. BTW, raising the rent for the neighbours isn't as easy as it sounds; there are procedures to be followed if the rent is to be raised) A compromise might be some flowerbeds, and a small space, but not Total Flowerbed.

Just as a LL can't come in without permission and "do up" a garden in his/her tenant's home during tenancy, s/he shouldn't allow interference which leaves the tenant with something totally unsuitable (imagine the maintenance headache and the dangers of a fishpond!). Remember that this garden is part of both sets of tenants' contractually agreed and paid-for home!

P.S. I'm very curious about this business of the neighbour/s. Is she on the phone all day, which is what makes her arsey about noise?

She has got away with telling you noisy toys are not allowed and tenderising chicken so she thinks she can bully you into conforming with the garden too. A proper assertive chat is in order. You need to confidently explain that, whilst you will make sure the children respect the garden in a reasonable way, that they will be allowed to enjoy the garden that you pay for with rent, and that you don't expect the kids to be shouted at.

Maintain a calm, dignified and assertive stance and then ignore her. Having said that, you do need to teach the children to respect flower beds etc too. Can you honestly say that this is the case?

Sorry OP, I got wrong end of stick about DC's behaviour... in your original post you said they were running in garden (and being told off by neighbour for running) so i got impression they were charging around. You asked if you were being unreasonable to 'expect her to put up with my DCs still running around'. I didn't realise noise-complaints were about noise inside flat rather than garden.

Differentname the OP mentioned several times she was worried DC would damage plants. She also stated 'I would rather it was still overgrown and they didn't have to worry about spoiling things'
This line stands out for me, because in a shared garden you DO have to worry about your kids spoiling things, and take steps to minimise damage. You can't expect a garden to be devoid of plants just to suit your young kids. Accidents happen yes, but if you're out there watching DC and they're quietly bug-hunting, collecting pebbles or playing hide-and-seek as you say, it's very unlikely anything will get damaged. Surely the only way they could destroy a plant is either stamping on it or ripping it to shreds? Which I'm sure they know not to do. If they stick to paths I don't see what the problem is. I don't think its reasonable to expect the garden to be free of plants just for your peace of mind. Could it be she's just planted seedlings and there are areas DC need to keep clear of until seedlings are more established? I can understand her being upset if a toddler is crushing seedlings underfoot, or if there are baby plants the DC are unaware of.

Having said that, I do think the way she's re-designed the garden is unfair and thoughtless, as it's taken away their playing area. I'm a bit confused as you originally said it's a large garden... has she dug-up the entire thing? Is there any grass left at all? If it's now one giant flowerbed, I suggest talking to landlord, explaining kids have nowhere to play, and asking if you can put down grass-seed or decking on part of it. It's possible he knew about her plan and approved it (in which case you just have to accept it) but it's possible he had no idea and might tell her to change one area back into lawn.

As I said before, try to claim an area for yourselves, get some garden furniture so you have somewhere to sit, toys like a slide or sandpit that stay in garden. Having your own things out there sends a clear message to neighbour that you won't be pushed out, that your DC will be using the space too. If there's literally no room to put your things, insist she moves some of hers or relocates some of the plants. However, I disagree with Alternative that you should remove plants without asking, bear in mind LL may have approved the new design. Legally she had no obligation to consult you if LL had given permission.

Alternative why should neighbour 'put it back to how it was', when previously the older tenant wasn't able to enjoy it in overgrown state?? Children are capable of enjoying a nice garden too, they just need to be more careful. It's still their garden to enjoy too, and the neighbour can't keep them out.

To all the posters telling OP to inflame the situation by giving kids noisy toys and water pistols... do you honestly think that will help??
The neighbour needs to be more tolerant and less precious over plants, but deliberately angering her and being rude will make things worse... it's likely to become a full-blown neighbour-war rather than a minor dispute over use of garden. Far better to have an adult discussion with neighbour and Landlord and try to reach a compromise.

Thanks everyone for all your comments/ support

climbingquickly
I did say that I would rather it was in its original state but only on here (Mumsnet), to the neighbor I didn't say anything like that- I just said- :"you've done a lovely job, the garden looks nice" (while silently thinking Oh God- this will be a nightmare- no playing space left and lots of expensive looking plants that DS 19 months might pick, grab, stand on etc not realising that what was previously a place where he could play relatively freely is now a place where he has to abide by rules that he doesn't yet understand.) I do supervise them, but as I'm sure you can imagine, a young toddler can sometimes be unpredictable.

It is kind of hard to explain what she has done- it was never a lawn- previously a kind of overgrown series of paths/ plants/ places to hide and run etc. She has levelled it and made it into flower beds, with one path of stepping stones down the middle, and the rest plants/ flowers. It was never really the kind of space you would put a slide/ wendy house etc. More just a nice place for them to look for stones/ bugs/ play hide and seek etc. I don't want to get into some massive dispute about it- just want them to still be able to go in it as they walk past it every time we go in the front door, want to play and get upset if I try to drag them away (and obviously it is space that we pay for, and part of the reason we moved in there.)

I think I will have a chat with the LL but to be honest, he is infuriated iwth her as well for various reasons- she complains about EVERYTHING all the time, both to me and to him and I think he is just marking time until the end of her lease when he can get her out and is reluctant to get into any more arguments in the meantime.

Thanks v much everyone. Much appreciated.

I really would let your dc play without excessive consideration for your neighbour in the hope that she hurries her exit.

She sounds like a complete bully