AIBU or is my neighbor

[deliverdaniel]

I really can't work out whether IABU because I am feeling baseline resentment about my neighbor (we have had problems in the past which I have posted about) or whether this is fair.

We live in a rented flat, part of a conversion which is two flats- we are upstairs, our neighbor is downstairs. SHe doesn't like us, complains constantly at us about all kinds of things- hates our kids etc etc. We are both renting with the same landlord.

there is large front garden, jointly used by both flats, which my kids used to play in- it was previously kind of a mess- not terrible, but a bit overgrown and the kids enjoyed playing in it. The neighbor enjoys gardening and has recently dug up the whole thing and planted a lot of plants and made it into a more well kept, fancy garden. She didn't tell me she was going to do this, or ask me what I thought or anything. What she has done looks nice, and I have been appreciative of her hard work- told her that she has done a really good job etc. But now she is saying that our DC can no longer play there because of all the work she has done to it, and that they might ruin the plants. Yesterday she shouted at 19 month old DS for running in there. AIBU to think that she doesn't have the right to do this? I monitor them carefully and make sure they don't damage anything, but tbh i would rather it was still overgrown and they didn't have to worry about spoiling things there and think that this is our shared space and we have just as much right to it as she does (this last bit is technically true according to the lease- just wondering if it is also generally 'right' in 'not being a total dick' terms.) I don't mind that she fixed it, and it does look nice, but I feel as though that doesn't somehow give her ownership of it, and the right to tell my DCs off. Or am I being unfair on her after all her hard work to expect her to put up with my DCs still runniing around and should take them to play elsehwere? Would appreciate opinions! thank you!

Of course your kids can play in the garden. She's being ridiculous. Did she have permission from the landlord to make the changes? Some LLs don't like that sort of thing. I'm in a rented house with a (thankfully) not shared garden. I just keep it tidy and put out pots of flowers but I definitely wouldn't dig in borders. I think you should mention it to the LL and if she complains just keep repeating it's a shared garden, it's in your contract and don't engage with her any further.

If she is going to forbid you to use it then she'll need to pay some of your share of the rent for exclusive use.

She's a bully. I would think sod her, perhaps if you stop being so accommodating she will move out!

Of course your dc should run and play and be noisy in the garden. You can teach them to be considerate of the flowerbeds though. It isn't either/or.

I would be tempted to get out your contract and highlight everything that is shared usage and post it through her door!

omg op get the kids noisy toys back out and also enjoy the garden. because she wants to miserable does not mean everyone around her should be.

Mmm. Nerf water guns anyone.

Lolling at the idea of children not running round in a garden! climbing did you actually manage to enforce this? How? Why? Surely that's the point of gardens.

She sounds horrible! She should have discussed it first. Your children have every right to go there. Tell her the kids might damage her plants and so if she minds she needs to dig them up now and put them in pots which she needs to keep inside during their waking hours - otherwise they are left at her own risk : )

I once had a difficult neighbour in the flat above me. I was single and am by nature quite a quiet person. She complained about: the flush of my toilet, my front door closing late at night (about 11ish), my visitors banging their car doors, etc.. I probably only came home late once/twice a week or had friends to supper once a month.

"oh Elizabeth all this noise must be so hard for you to bear, have you ever wondered if you might be disturbed less if you sleep in the bedroom at the back of the flat and then you wouldn't hear it".

She also moaned about everyone else and I think I might also have once said "oh, if I wanted total tranquillity I don't think I'd live in a block of flats in London".

She's a congenital moaner OP, just smile and nod, smile and nod.

It does sound like a deliberate ploy on her part. It's a shared garden, so you both have the right to use it. What does the lease say about whose responsibility it is to look after the garden? I assume it's not the landlord's?

By the way, I think I'd be inclined to mention to the landlord that this woman is trying to stop your kids using the garden.

Or alternatively, suggest 3 and a half days each....

I really don't think this is a huge issue. She's improved the garden...lovely! If she starts on about not allowing the children in again, just remind her that it's a shared space and the landlord wouldn't have allowed a family to move in if kids weren't allowed in it. And of course, I'm sure you supervise your DC enough to know if they were doing anything to the plants.

I expect neighbour checked with landlord before making the improvements. LL was probably delighted a tenant wanted to do up garden free of charge! It will increase value of property. I expect he'd take a very dim view if your kids damaged it!! She's put a lot of work into transforming garden into a place she can enjoy too. It's irrelevant what state garden was in when you signed lease; landlords reserve right to improve or refurbish communal areas, that includes giving tenants permission to make changes. If your LL had done-up garden himself would you still feel it's ok to let your DC damage it??

If she's made it very unsafe for DC (eg breakable ornaments and toxic plants) it would be reasonable to ask her to make some adjustments. But thinking it's ok for DC to ruin her plants and damage things, just because they want to be boisterous and charge around... thats's a bit different!

OP why is it so difficult for DC to play in a nice garden without damaging things? All kids should respect plants and not trample on flowers! If garden is so small they can't run without trampling/banging into things, it's not a suitable place to run around. Your neighbour is quite elderly, maybe she's worried about DC knocking her over or hitting her with balls?

I also think it's very selfish to let DC make lots of noise when it's neighbour's garden too. How would you feel if she blasted loud music in garden, or had a dog that barked and whined in a communal area? Can't you go out with DC and supervise, teach them to be more respectful?

I disagree they should behave however they want. It's a communal garden not a private one. Sharing is about compromise. When we had a shared garden my DC were quite capable of playing quietly and not spoiling it for other residents. They had a wendy-house and lots of toys outside, they also had their own flowerbed to grow things and would chat to other residents. Not all gardens are suitable for rough play.
Get your DC some non-noisy garden toys, e.g. skipping ropes, soft balls, things that won't do any damage. Let them take toys out and play creative games. Your neighbour needs to share the garden, but she doesn't have to put up with DC wrecking it!

I am still keen to find out if the children are playing unsupervised. How come the children are making such a racket in the garden that the downstairs neighbour is taking such a hump?

I also don't understand how children can trample down a garden.
Are they not supervised? Have they not been taught to respect plants? Not rip any up? Not step on them?

Teaching "garden behaviour" is part of parenting. Just as you need to teach children not to pick up ornaments and throw, hang from the curtains, and rip bread to shreds inside, they need to be taught how to behave outside.

Climbing and quietshhh, the OP said that the children can't play there, full stop, not that the children were behaving badly.

I got the impression that they were being supervised and weren't making a racket or behaving badly, and no one has said they aren't being taught to respect plants and other people's belongings.

Even the best behaved children can cause damage unwittingly.

I have only ever had one dreadful neighbour - being nice and reasonable does not always work and it is very stressful.

I meant the op has said neighbour has said they can't play there, full stop.

Yes OP says she monitors kids carefully... yet she still fears they will damage the new plants. She doesn't want to pay for any damage as she preferred garden the way it was before, and feels neighbour should have consulted her before improving it. This is the part I find unreasonable, because if the LL had improved garden himself and paid for plants, there would be no argument about treating it with care and OP would legally have to pay for any damage her DC caused. The garden has been improved, presumably with permission from landlord. Ll will not agree to it reverting to former state just so OP doesn't need to worry about damaging things. OP needs to take extra care to make sure DC don't damage it. It's no-longer appropriate for DC to charge around carelessly. Neighbour has worked hard to transform it into something beautiful and is probably terrified kids will wreck it.

The neighbour cannot stop the DC playing in the garden. It's kids garden too and they have every right to use it as much as she does. However, they need to use it in a way that is respectful of neighbour and doesn't un-do her hard work or disturb her.

OP maybe your neighbour felt your DC had taken over the garden before, and this is why she is now being so possessive? How often were your DC using it? Were they shouting and screeching near her windows?

She is U to say they can't use it all now, but something must have triggered her to feel so strongly. I think you need to find out what upset her. Try to see her POV. The noise of kids playing boisterously can be very irritating. I guess after hours of hard graft, she feels entitled to get some enjoyment out of the garden too, and can't when kids are out there making noise. Could you arrange to use it on alternate days? Showing a bit of empathy might help. So would agreeing some ground rules and keeping noise down. If your DC damage her plants I think it's only fair to pay for them, I know you didn't choose them but they are there now and kids need to be responsible and careful around other people's things. I would find it very upsetting if I shared a garden with neighbours and they let their DC treat it like a private garden.

I'd like to know if there is a back garden too?

Assuming this is the only outdoor space available I think the kids should be able to use it, but not for ball games/running as it doesn't sound suitable for that.

If the landlord had agreed to garden improvements, I presume the landlord should also have informed all tenants, as with any changes to property environment.

I have no reason to believe these changes were approved by the landlord.

Ps--children, no matter how well brought up = noise. Especially outdoors.

Ffs.

So not only have these very young, innocent, children lost their wilderness, they are now being told they are not to run too?!

(I think I might be overinvesting in this thread. Sorry.)

(But I do think the wellbeing of very young children should be given priority over the wellbeing of plants or the sensibilities of a mature woman).

(And I don't think it would be reasonable to have to pay for damaged plants unless it was done on purpose and fair warning hadn't been given; and the fair warning would also prevent spurious accusations and lamentations of said mature woman).

(And it is a shame the mature woman didn't think to invite the children to do planting with her, so creating love and harmony for all).

(I think I had better go and have a nice cup of tea).

Don't offer to replace any damaged plants? What if the postman trips and falls and smooshes one, and she wants to blame your kids? (Even worse, what if she does it herself and wants to blame you? Not entirely out of the question, as it really looks like she did it on purpose to 'reclaim' the garden as a play-free zone.)

And she shouldn't be yelling at your 19mo. Who does that?

plants? -> plants!

If I was you Id ask LL to split the garden in half one half for each of you.

a fence or trellis or something.