To ask if you have had any contact with benefit 'scroungers'

[JumpRope]

I utterly believe that we need to protect the poor, vulnerable and those unable to work and they should have help to live.

I grew up in a very rural area, fairly poor, very hard work for non land owners - workers werefarm labourers mainly. And there were many people leaving school in the 80s and 90s and then abusing the system - picking up the dole, laughing about it, straight to the pub until it ran out; I remember a dog called Giro. People just sold a bit of marijuana for extra work. After moving to a bigger town, I came across families like this, where the dad would start it off, and the children would just grow up and do the same.

There were jobs around. As students homes for holidays, we picked up work without trouble, and could have stayed on, got promotions etc.

How do you deal with these situations? How can we make sure we are not making cuts to those who desperately need it, whilst absolutely changing the mind sets of able bodied men (and women) who have grown up believing they are entitled to money for nothing.

I went to a job club about 15 yrs ago!
How times have changed...now you have to apply online etc....then it was seen as something extraordinary!
I have a degree and was applying for degree level jobs whilst working a couple of part-time casual ones. The best place to look - even then - was online (especially because I was looking to relocate).
I went to the job centre mainly for advice on where I could get internet access - our internet connection at home was dire - even for dial up - a real battle to do anything. I guess libraries didn't offer it then?
They said the only thing they could suggest was for me to go to a Job club and I couldn't go unless I signed on and for at least 6 months. Then after much debate I did sign on, declared my earnings so they paid me nothing and they allowed me to go to the job club more or less straight away...it took me two visits to find my next job...
It was a weird place ...full of people hanging around, not much direction and most people obviously were only there because they had to be. There was a how to do a cv session ... someone standing at the front telling us what a cv should look like...then people with no prior experience of a computer left to try and write their own on one ...lots of one finger typing and waiting for the advisor to come and show them where the hard return was...think about your skills but not individual advice (and advisor was too busy to do much else but help people type) - a complete waste of time.
Having said that more recently - about 6-7 yrs ago I guess - DP (a bit rubbish on computers) was working but looking for a new job. He went to the job centre. They offered to re-write his cv for him ...he agreed thinking he would get a fantastic one ...it was full of typos and terribly bad grammar... his old one was 100x better!

I think job club type things would be a better way of going about things, particularly if they could find a way to streamline people according to their skills and needs.

I didn't mean cap benefit I meant cap rent to a fair rate for that particular house, as opposed to capping benefits to what is presumed to be a fair market rate.

who decides what's fair rate for a house place? if it's priced too low, people will fight for underpriced places.

capping rents won't work. building more houses will. the only places where rent is out of control is where population has grown faster than supply.

About 25 years ago I became unemployed due to ill health. Eventually, I went on the Business Enterprise scheme, where I was guaranteed dole for 6m and HB for a year, without having to sign on each fortnight. I was sent on a (very very basic) business course - keep track of your expenses, how to fill in a tax return, how to advertise etc. In fact, they stopped the HB after 6m as well as the dole. You were supposed to be making enough money by then to live without; I was. I have never looked back, though I never earnt very much. I went to Uni and completely retrained.

Then ms raised its ugly head and I haven't been well enough to earn at all for nearly 15 years. I am just beginning to trust my health enough to volunteer. Meanwhile, we'd have been screwed - utterly screwed - without my DLA. I haven't trusted the Job Centre people to try to claim for any other benefits (and I am apparently eligible for at least another 700 quid a month) as I thought I simply couldn't jump through their hoops, and I see I was right.

There was a time when I couldn't put food on the table, and dd would get a bowl of rice and peas for supper, I would eat unbuttered bread or Jacob's crackers or even dry Shreddies. No local food banks back then.

If they cut benefits even more, we'll be back to that; I'm sure many people already do that or similar. At least there's a food bank round the corner now.

I gave up my career to become a Carer for my disabled (autistic) son. He went to uni this year and after 20 years, my Carers' Allowance stopped - although I can claim when he is home for the holidays. No way to kickstart my old career again. I was a teacher and would love to teach again but there are no jobs and no Return To Teaching courses - it's not a job you can do if you are a couple of years out of date, let alone 20. A friend of mine in her late 20s got her PGCE two years ago and was one of the top students in her year. She jumped through hoops even to get on her PGCE as I did mine, all those years ago. Two years on and she has been unable to find any teaching work, and works as a TA - as two other qualified teachers I know, do. Once schools can get free cover from a TA who has an actual teaching qualification - well they're not going to employ you as a teacher, ever.

A few years back there were return to teaching courses but they were cut (during the coalition reign, I think).

At the moment I am living on my husband's minimum wage and in my 50s so who's going to employ me? The state paid to give me that qualification, and I'd love to use it again. I had no choice but to become a Carer and I am now left with nothing. I am not even paid my national insurance stamp when my son is not home. I was told as an Intermittent Carer, I would be. The spectacular success of getting an autistic son to university when he couldn't even read til he was 17, is quite a life achievement I think - but not one society values! Carers are thrown on the scrapheap, even when the caring ends.

Worse still my son's DLA which was a lifetime award, will be changed to PIP and he will have to go through an ATOS style assessment. I have power of attorney for him but if I go with him I will be asked to be silent. We spent 21 years building his confidence and not going on and on about his disability - now he will have that wrecked in half an hour in a room with a stranger. Apparently, many autistic people when asked about personal care etc want to appear 'normal' and fully functioning and will answer "Yes of course I can wash myself!" Box ticked, benefit ended. No-one cares that they have to be verbally prompted (I am constantly Skyping my son! And do as much admin for him as when he lived here!) Can you walk in a straight line for 10M? Yes he can. But some days his legs just crumple under him. He is too proud to bloody tell you that.

I think Carers and people who got DLA for life, should be looking to take this government to court because we were promised DLA for life for incurable conditions - and now our kids will lose it. Partly due to this culture that hates 'scroungers'.

Meanwhile I know people who do indeed scrounge, show no signs of looking for work and can afford all the luxuries we go without. This government won't touch them in a million years. Just the disabled.

Job search for 7 hours a DAY???

That is truly mad.

It's not intended to be productive, CornChips. It's intended to punish.

Because obviously people are unemployed by choice. So the only way to make them choose to be employed is to make jobseeking as hard work as working. Then they'll decide to be employed.

This was brought to you by David Freud, the controversial banker and dilletante "welfare advisor" who also said that employed people should just "ask to work more hours". The planet on which he lives does not even orbit the real world.

yes, lots including my cousins two daughters who are text book examples that people say don't exist

Joffrey, that's awful.

Yep 7 hours a day. They did drop this to 29 hours a week when I said I was doing voluntary work. Thanks for that I still have the paperwork somewhere. One second.

This is what I had to sign

I don't think I've ever seen anyone on MN claim lazy so-n-sos don't exist. They exist in all countries and all times - I can produce examples from Victorian Britain to current developing nations.

What does get challenged on MN are claims that:
a) lazy fuckers exist, therefore other people should suffer;
and
b) my neighbour sneezed, so he's living a life of Riley on benefits.

As a wheelchair user, I'm frequently favoured with people's opinions on benefits. Recent corker was the bloke in the Post Office telling me how he was "discusted at all those scroungers I see at the school gate on sick benefits."

Me: Sorry, how do you know they're on sick benefits?
Him: One of them walks with a stick!

Sadly, I'm not making this up.

Pausing, various of us on this thread (and other benefit ones) have tried to make these points ad infinitum. It just doesn't seem to sink in. It doesn't fit the handy narrative of 'There's no money therefore it's all benefit scroungers' fault'.

They're just a current scapegoat, along with 'immigrants' (and I think there's quite a lot of crossover in the propaganda about both groups).

I can remember when the scapegoat du jour was 'single mothers', who now don't seem to be getting the blame; or not directly, anyway. Do people not realise that we are constantly directed by those in or mates with the politicians to be shocked and appalled at whichever handy group we can all blame our woes on?

Have you considered simply ramming selected people in the shins Pausing?

It's the rotating knives wot do it, Arsenic.

Actually he was very nice to me - helped me over a dodgy bit of pavement outside.

I started typing something long about the parroting of Daily Wailisms, often ending with "... but I don't mean genuine people like you." But it's late and I'm going to wimp out of trying to articulate it at this time of night.

Joffrey, such a waste.
Have you tried tutoring? You can do that self employed and if you move to or pick areas where people are wealthy there can be quite a demand for it. You could mug up on latest GCSE courses or primary level work through websites.

My parents have barely worked in the last 20 years (they're in their late 50's). They sit back and take what they can with a huge sense of entitlement. I knew that wasn't what I wanted for my life so I worked hard and got a decent education.

But, I know they're a minority and we absolutely need the benefits system to take care of those who need it. A few people will always take advantage if they can.

I think it's very unreasonable to ask for contact with scroungers. I don't know anything about ballroom dancing. But, the TV has provided me with all the knowledge that I need. And, the good thing about the morning paper is, once it's done with educating me about these people, I can wrap my chips in it. You can't say fairer than that.

I think there were a lot of people on benefits in the 80's that weren't looking for jobs, I certainly knew a fair few. Those I am still in contact with are all working now. It was easy to be on benefits in the 80s when Thatcher was PM. I was unemployed for 2 months, until I got a job. But I used to go late to sign on and only had to say yes I was looking for a job. I was looking for a job, but could have easily just been lying in bed instead all day.

It is much harder to be unemployed today as a lifestyle choice. And those who are long term unemployed that I know are far more likely to have issues that make them unattractive to potential employers. For example, one man who gets angry easily and seems unable to get on with anyone. He does go for interviews, but never gets the jobs.

It's the rotating knives wot do it

I started typing something long about the parroting of Daily Wailisms, often ending with "... but I don't mean genuine people like you." But it's late and I'm going to wimp out of trying to articulate it at this time of night

Yes, it's an interesting phenomenon. I remember it well from my single parent days. ("Single mothers.... ..... Not you of course" "What am I then? Chopped liver?")

It's sister artefact "That's different" is also interesting

Its^ ITS

My plan is that we should keep babies in sealed containers and only let married couples have one after signing a lifelong financial guarantee.

PM me for details.