To ask if you have had any contact with benefit 'scroungers'

[JumpRope]

I utterly believe that we need to protect the poor, vulnerable and those unable to work and they should have help to live.

I grew up in a very rural area, fairly poor, very hard work for non land owners - workers werefarm labourers mainly. And there were many people leaving school in the 80s and 90s and then abusing the system - picking up the dole, laughing about it, straight to the pub until it ran out; I remember a dog called Giro. People just sold a bit of marijuana for extra work. After moving to a bigger town, I came across families like this, where the dad would start it off, and the children would just grow up and do the same.

There were jobs around. As students homes for holidays, we picked up work without trouble, and could have stayed on, got promotions etc.

How do you deal with these situations? How can we make sure we are not making cuts to those who desperately need it, whilst absolutely changing the mind sets of able bodied men (and women) who have grown up believing they are entitled to money for nothing.

Quite, Arsenic.
By the time I've seen (and fought for) my kids through their education (trying to get them the best possible in spite of cuts) and into whatever employment they can manage, then got them into supported accommodation (as I won't be around forever and they need to be as independent as possible) it's quite possible I will have been out of the employment market for 20+ years.

I'm trying to keep my IT skills as current as possible obviously but I hate to say it when the time comes the fact that pre 2009 I worked 70+ hours a week effectively running 3 businesses (including payroll, VAT, sales, advertising etc) just won't be relevant any more.

All they will see is a middle aged woman who is deaf enough to qualify as disabled for transport purposes and cannot hear without hearing aids who has not worked for over 20 years.

Mmm. Very employable.

Exactly Arsenic, and just taking money away doesn't stop the problems from existing.

Depressing, isn't it?

I keep thinking maybe a lot of the Tory voters ARE averagely nice people, but just very lucky ones devoid of all imagination.

Food banks have been allowed to take over that problem a bit, maybe charities will end up taking a bigger role in helping disabled people.

Yes I have and members of my own extended family as well so I know their situations well. It rankles a bit but then I remember holidaying in Spain many summers ago when we were staying in a fairly derelict area of a big city and being behind an old woman at a local grocery who was trying to decide between buying two carrots or three carrots with many worried glances at the contents of her purse. And the family two flats along who had no income and had had their water turned off so that every morning they had to take many buckets to neighbours to collect enough water for the day.

I have no idea whether the Spanish benefits system has improved now because back then I think you received unemployment payment for a year and then absolutely nothing but living in a system like that would terrify me for all of us. Many people in every area of our own society are playing the loopholes in some way including large businesses so rather than allowing myself to be irritated by small incidences of seemingly grabby behaviour I would rather that government took a more rounded approach to social justice than by bringing in policies which might impact disproportionately on those who are in genuine need.

So for the 4th time on this thread, if, as many of you are claiming you know for a fact people are claiming fraudulently - REPORT THEM! If it riles you so much, do something about it. Then maybe the DWP would lay off those of us who are genuine, living on the breadline and just existing while caring for others. Do something to stop fraud and help those of us who are unable to defraud the system by taking a few backhanders. REPORT THEM! I don't care if it's family, friends or neighbours, you could help us all out. Either do something about it or jog on with your made up facts about 'my neighbour has a private number plate and I'm so jealous'

Sorry that may have been true in the 80s but not the 90s...
It was 1992 that I didn't get 'put on the sick' ...when I 'should' have done.
I went to claim benefits (didn't even really know how to do that) and got told I had 6 weeks ...and being naive I didn't know that I would have been ok -I took that seriously... (I really didn't have a clue - I was in a daze anyway - eg I didn't claim HB etc - just didn't know I could)

I wasn't eligible for SSP from my employer - I had been working my 3 month notice when I got sick, I had had job interviews for new jobs lined up and knew I could easily get casual work ...before I got ill. My employer paid the few weeks to the end of my notice, but they had employed my replacement and I couldn't do it anyway.
(They did do their best to help me out though - eg offered me 2 weeks secretarial work holiday cover - not on my feet - even though I was a bit clueless having never done anything like that before! etc)

living on the breadline

Oh please.

I have "depression" I'm well aware my neighbours think I'm a scrounger as we have nice things and don't work in fact I've heard them call us scroungers. They don't know I hsve anxiety, OCD and BPD too. They don't know that if my DH wasn't here I'd be dead many times over, they called the police once thinking he was hitting me truth was I was screaming at him for not letting me kill myself. They only see the surface the same way most of you only see the surface of these "scroungers" lives you don't know what goes on behind closed doors and you have no right to judge them.

Don't they sanction immediately if you are under suspicion of fraud now? Sorry if I've got that wrong, I thought that was one of the rules nowadays...and if its your own relatives, why would you inflict that on them?

propel, I don't understand your point. Can you expand on it please?

I'm confused too propel

*living on the breadline

Oh please.*

Would you like to explain? I have written back up thread explaining exactly where our money goes, maybe you could get your cleaner to read it for you. Do you really not understand that because last week my daughter needed a new sweatshirt for school, (£17), that money had to come out of my food budget? Because my kids get free school meals they didn't suffer too much when they had cereal for breakfast and tea. Myself and DH felt hungry but we can eat better again today as my Carers Allowance has been paid in (should be £62 but they remove £30 of that as DH receives Income Related ESA). We have very little domestic oil left but cannot afford to order anymore. However, if the washer breaks down, DH needs an unexpected trip to hospital (70 miles away) etc etc we are in that position again but for longer this time. So don't judge me when you obviously have absolutely no idea. No clothes for over a year, one pair of shoes with holes in, never owned a dishwasher and a settee that is rapidly losing springs. How fucking dare you

piddle some folk will never have a clue as long as they have a hole in their bum.
Others won't have a clue until the day they hit rock bottom and find themselves in your shoes.

Try not to let it get to you...it's hard I know.

I have to find the money for three new tyres over the next few weeks...budget will cost me a total of £127.50 for thee three. I am bricking it as I have no idea how I am going to do it. I WILL find it somehow, going to sell my iPad which was a birthday pressie to find the tyres I think. I need the car as DS is autistic and doesn't cope well out of the house,

Twin dds have prom this month, thank heavens for charity shops!

Oh I see, propel, were you suggesting that someone in the circumstances piddle describes is NOT on the breadline?

Care to back that up a bit?

If you have a local tire dealer Grateful try for some German or Italian retreads. They are perfectly safe because they are made to better standards but massively cheaper so at worst you should be able to afford 4/5 tires for the original price which is better for the car as you would not have any unbalancing effect. I am sorry to go off the topic.

I don't find this thread disgusting.

I am very anti conservatives. I have relied on benefits myself for years and while I am now working I still rely on them. I also have a disabled husband who doesn't work and has been accused of being a scrounger in the past. To the extent he used to feel like he couldn't go in the garden during the day because he wanted the neighbours to think he was working so he used to sit in the dark trying to get people not to notice he was at home.

The fact is some people do cheat the system or don't work when they can (although that is getting harder and harder to do) One of the couples I spoke about earlier I know extremely well. I speak to them every single day and see them a few times a week. I am not being arrogant and I know they simply don't want to work. They certainly aren't living a great life but I do know there isn't any MH issues there or anything that would stop them working. I know them very very well and have known them for well over 15 years. They tell me they don't want to work.

I hate how so many assume those on benefits are scroungers but I don't think it is wrong to have a conversation about those who are well known to be playing the system. I give most people here enough credit to know the difference between those and those who genuinely need it and not to lump them together. I don't think we should pretend they don't exist and I see nothing wrong with having a discussion about it. If people are stupid enough to think ALL claimants are 'scroungers' then they already hold that opinion and nothing will change it.

Maybe I'm misreading this thread but my impression is that posters are, almost without exception, incredibly supportive of those who need benefits and would like to see them raised for those who need them but are unhappy at the fact that fraud is so widely known and accepted by some regardless of what the statistics tell us

It's not good enough for those to disagree trying to shut the discussion down by labelling everybody who posts their experience as Daily Fail readers or "haters". We should have an open and honest discussion on this subject rather than allowing the government to divide and conquer

The thing is though, money that goes on benefits is a tiny tiny portion of the UK's welfare budget, and those playing the system are in a tiny tiny minority within that.

In this context, anecdotes about individuals are statistically pretty insignificant.

I've no desire to shut down debate and I see a lot of posts on here that seem to me to be coming from the same mindset. People are not saying that scroungers don't exist, just that the numbers are really tiny. Some posters have provided figures to support the kind of assertions I make here but others still persist in presenting anecdotes as justification for their views.

I think the saddest thing is that those who think they are 'beating' the system would probably do well in the world of work, they obviously have some skills.

But if they feel that nobody gives a fuck about them I can sort of see why they wouldn't give a fuck about anyone else.

I don't know enough people like this to be able to fully form an informed opinion, but a common theme is that they think they were rubbish at school and were told they had no prospects and would never amount to anything. It can be a self fulfilling prophecy sometimes.

Some of the people playing the system are even more of a victim of it.

According to the Office of National Statistics, in April this year, there were 1.84m people seeking work, of those 0.77m were claiming unemployment benefits. There were 734,000 jobs available.

Now maths isn't my best subject but I am certain that 1.84m doesn't quite fit into 734,000.

Once there are more jobs than there are people claiming JSA then I will believe that "scroungers" are a massive problem to this country.

Yes. My parents haven't worked for 30 years. No good reason, they just didn't want to. We were raised on benefits in a council house.

They're from an easier time regarding benefits, though. Nobody would get away with what they did, nowadays. It's only now my father has neglected his health and is close to the age of retirement, and my perfectly able-bodied mother his 'carer' (he doesn't need one), that they're not bothered by the DWP.

They were true scroungers. I really don't see how anyone could get away with it now.

I used to live in an area similar to the OP. It was a very 'naice' village and included a small row of about eight council houses. I knew a couple who lived in one of the houses pretty well and they would happily admit they had no intention of working when they could manage fine on benefits. Their next door neighbours each side had the same outlook, and I remember going off to work some sunning mornings and driving past their houses, where they would be sitting in their front gardens sunbathing. I would come home nine hours later to see them still sitting there. And I admit it used to make me .

Admittedly this is probably 15-20 years ago now so I don't know if that lifestyle would be possible anymore. However I do have friends who work within DWP, and from their conversations I am pretty certain that 'benefit scrounging' is still alive and well.