To ask if you have had any contact with benefit 'scroungers'

[JumpRope]

I utterly believe that we need to protect the poor, vulnerable and those unable to work and they should have help to live.

I grew up in a very rural area, fairly poor, very hard work for non land owners - workers werefarm labourers mainly. And there were many people leaving school in the 80s and 90s and then abusing the system - picking up the dole, laughing about it, straight to the pub until it ran out; I remember a dog called Giro. People just sold a bit of marijuana for extra work. After moving to a bigger town, I came across families like this, where the dad would start it off, and the children would just grow up and do the same.

There were jobs around. As students homes for holidays, we picked up work without trouble, and could have stayed on, got promotions etc.

How do you deal with these situations? How can we make sure we are not making cuts to those who desperately need it, whilst absolutely changing the mind sets of able bodied men (and women) who have grown up believing they are entitled to money for nothing.

Um, yes. I can think of 3 women, off the top of my head, who don't work and have a patchy record of having done so. One has had numerous people help her out by giving her good, well paid work, often while not knowing her but on the basis of giving someone a chance in employment, and she always finds something wrong with the job after a few months and leaves. Then complains about how little money and opportunity she has. Another has, at the age of 37, never had a full time job, doesn't have children, and lives off goodness knows what, ranging from a long term boyfriend to student loans, but is perfectly capable of supporting herself through work (but chooses not to, instead spends her time campaigning for the SNP). The third has tried very hard to get disability benefits, but since her condition was successfully treated by the NHS, has failed, and again, she seems to attach herself to various men.

I can think of another who possibly annoys me even more - no qualifications, one grown up kid, history of part time unskilled work but constantly complaining on FB about how hard life is and how hard she works, and how unfair it is that the "greedy rich" with "fancy jobs" have "life easier".

My neighbourhood is very wealthy, but I can't help noticing almost none of the neighbours (mainly in their fifties) work. Houses tend to sell for £400,000 plus, yet they seem to be comprised of a mixture of "retired" building contractors, drainage consultants, landscape gardeners, etc. with stay at home wives. Probably got lucrative council contracts in the past. I'm unsure whether they claim benefits or not, but one was recently convicted for benefit fraud (which was a shock to everyone as he seemed to lead a very middle class lifestyle, being one of those mysterious "businessmen" you hear about).

No idea - I've never met anyone with "scrounger" tattooed across their forehead.

I need to meet one of these people who are able to fraudulently claim disability benefits. I need some tips.

I'm helping my father at his meeting with the DWP on Wednesday. The very same meeting they've cancelled and rearranged 3 times, but sent him a warning letter stating that he'd be taken of the waiting list for assessment if he canceled his appointment again. He cancelled one appointment. At the time he (I say he, it was me) cancelled it, he was in hospital on a nebuliser and oxygen, with an oxygen level of around 70%. I told them all of this on the phone, after I eventually got them to agree to speak to me.

He'll be turned down for disability no doubt, despite the fact that he cannot even manage walking around his own house. Each time he's diagnosed with something new we're allowed to re-apply, each time we're told he is not disabled enough yet.

I agree dooin, all these fraudulent types seem to be very different to the disabled people anyone actually knows don't they

TBH, the way they've treat us I'm surprised anyone whose head is still attached to their body is disabled enough for them.

D0oin according to my friends in the DWP, all he needs to do is claim that his disability is depression or lower back pain ...

And just for the record, I have also personally known people who have done this.

He has "severe depression" according to his GP's notes, along with anxiety and panic attacks, memory loss and confusion. His lower back pain is the least of his worries. We're more concerned by the fact that he cannot even walk to his own yard to feed his ferret without needing a rest half way to catch his breath.

He can make himself a cup of tea though and can manage stairs (by manage I mean crawl up, over the course of 10 minutes, it's a two story house, it can take him over half an hour before he's caught his breath enough to attempt to come back down) so he's well enough to work, in the great wisdom of the DWP

I don't believe that anyone gets disability benefits for depression or lower back pain.

D0oin The people I knew who were claiming this way were doing so a long time ago. Conversations about it with friends currently working for the DWP leads me to believe that it still happens.

Anyway I'm sorry for your father's situation

When tories came into power in the 80`s the unemployment was high, to reduce this they introduced the disability scheme - which reduced the unemployment numbers (yeah) but they then increased the disability payment above jsa - so it made sense to claim disability. Doctors are becoming increasingly involved in a persons right to claim - wasted resource of doctors time - a doctor cant see a bad back etc. Now the tories have realised the big mistake it made. Its unfortunate that those who are genuinely ill have to jump through hoops because of the ones that arent. Its all about bad policies having been made.

Are you confusing disability benefits with SSP Penguins? I've just remembered that he did get SSP for a while and then incapacity benefit (which was scrapped iirc, he got something after sick pay that was scrapped)

SSP is only something you can claim for a set time. We've already had all of that. He did get for his back pain and arthritis. It was during this time that the depression and anxiety set in.

It's ESA we're trying to get for him atm.

I don't think so - the people I knew were claiming Incapacity Benefit, and I thought ESA had replaced that? Sorry if I'm wrong...

Conversations about it with friends currently working for the DWP leads me to believe that it still happens.

It's just anecdote, though, isn't it?

Well yes of course, but I have no reason to assume that they would sit talking bollocks all night tbh.

People on here (by definition either having broadband at home; a smartphone and enough data allowance to allow leisurely Mumsnetting and responding to threads like this; or a laptop/tablet and enough money to spend the day using free wifi in a cafe) are unlikely to know benefit scroungers. Different social circles.

they do exist, I know some, and praise be that they do!

as if we cut some services to them- we can hopefully save money for the vulnerable and needy

I just dont know to be honest- I believe the NHS, the sick and the elderly are sacrosanct and they come above:

• NHS translators for EU country members
• new playgrounds/gym equipment that noone uses
• not moving elderly people that reside in 3 bed council houses to smaller flats (locally)- seriously if they built one block of 1 bed flats they would get themselves around 10 x 3-bed houses on my street back
• I also think child benefit should be capped at 2 kids from 2016 onwards
• I also think council hoiuses dewlleys have become far more affluent, and rent needs to means tested

I am quite depressed about the conservatives, but there IS waste in the system and I blooody well hope they find it- and fast

I don't agree ionane- we don't choose our families, nor the other parents that our children go to school with.
I know 5 or 6 families that are having the time of their lives on benefits.
One woman with 4 kids who is known locally as an artist- lives in a huge detached house which even has an orchard- she spends her day painting watercolours and I know for a fact that she is on income support and housing benefit.
She pays not a penny for her house.

Incapacity benefit was scrapped and replaced with ESA yes, but everyone had to be reassessed and it was much, much harder to get ESA.

My father, tbf, does not help himself, which is why I've been asked to be at the assessment with him. He was on his own during the last one. He couldn't remember what they asked him by the time my mum got home. We got a copy a few weeks later. It read "Mr D0oin owns x, y and z pets which he cares for himself. He also has 3 large dogs, which he takes out daily." He didn't think the fact that he simply feeds his own pets and I go round once a week to clean them all out was relevant. Nor did he think it appropriate to mention the fact that whilst he does, in fact go out with his dogs, he sits in the car or by the car and chats to passers by while myself or my mum actually walk with the dogs

He said they didn't ask him if he cleaned the pet cages or walked with the dogs, only if he cared for them and went out with them. He didn't understand what they meant.

D0oin I think that's the crux of it - people who are out to con the system would think very carefully about how they answer any questions - and are happy to lie through their teeth.

No I don't and even if I did and that's what the government thought why are they taking it off the disabled and carers first? Because neither of those groups are bloody 'scroungers' anyway

It's just a bloody excuse.

Is grew up on council estates. There were a few dodgy scrounger types but looking back nearly every family had at least one working full time. When the kids left school, often at 16 - they had to get a job straight away. A few girls I knew got pregnant young - far as I know most of them are all working now. Don't know how much the estate has changed these days but back then most folk worked. It was also hugely hit when ship building and steelworks were shut down.

Doin, I'm sorry about your dad :(
I'm a carer for a teenager with severe disabilities and I recently had to renew her DLA application. It took 3 days to fill in and I had to pay over £10 at the printers to copy all her documents, plus a 50 mile round trip for her social worker to fill in one section. I really don't think people have a clue.

I have a good degree, had a good job, could progress (certainly wouldn't be in this situation) but caring 24 hours a day takes its toll and you are the only person who knows how to do that 'job', so for most of us, we just get on and do it. We save the government millions I don't know wtf is going on. I think some very well educated individuals are seriously lacking in imagination!

well you cant do wrong for doing right on this thread it seems. single mum on benefits=scrounger, single mum working (any hrs) =scrounger.............

seriously, what makes one better or worse than the other? people need to be angry at the organisation, not the individuals.

piddle you may be able to claim for travel to hospital. I would check.

Actually those on benefits should be annoyed at those taking through fraud. Yes the works pay it, but the gov should look at how its spent. Worker dont want it back, they want it to go to the right people. Same as those who genuinely claim it.

Penguins, I don't mean they do 'sit talking bollocks all night'. That's not what 'anecdote' means in this context, is it? It means individual stories as opposed to actual figures.

Stories from people who know someone who's a 'scrounger' are, in the context of a whole country's budget, meaningless.

But I've said this about thirty times in slightly different ways here and people still seem determined not to engage. I guess it's easier to point at individuals who ARE fiddling the system, and blame all our ills on them, than to look at the figures, admit that benefit fraud is a tiny tiny problem, and try to think of other ways to solve our ills.