To continue to pay school fees for only one of our three children

[ninaaa]

I have 3 DCs, all of whom have attended an independent school from age 4. Initially we had hoped to keep all three DCs in independent school for the whole of their education, but financially this is no longer an option. We moved both DS (Y10) and DD1 (Y8) out of the school at age 11. Both got places at outstanding local grammar schools and are doing well.

DD2 (Y6) is severely dyslexic, and struggles academically. We did not enter her for the 11+ exams, as we and her teachers felt it was very unlikely she would pass. She has been offered a place at a good local comprehensive, which we have accepted and were planning to move her to in September.

She is also a very talented athlete, and competes at county level in several sports. Her school has just offered her a sports scholarship, which covers ? of the fees. We could manage to pay the remainder, although it would mean cutting back a bit on luxuries such as holidays. We feel that staying at her independent school would offer DD2 the best sports opportunities, and they also have a good SEN department, as well as smaller classes with a higher teacher to pupil ratio. The local comprehensive has a good reputation, and she will probably do ok there, but will probably do better in the independent school, both academically and in sport.

My DH thinks that it is unfair to only pay for one child to attend independent school, even though she has a scholarship that will save us ? of the school fees, particularly as paying the remainder of the fees will reduce the amount of money we are able to spend on our other two DCs. I think that we need to give her the best possible opportunity, particularly as she struggles academically whereas her older siblings are doing well academically.

I don’t know what to do.

I'd be reminding DD1 that she won her place at a better school through her talents and that DD2 will be doing the same. More to the point I'd be telling DD1 that she doesn't get to have a say in the education of her siblings and her opinion is neither asked for nor wanted.

YANBU.

I'm always reading on here how expensive it is to have a child with a disability and how it affects the rest of the family. It sounds like your DD's dyslexia is severe enough to be classed as a disability but her siblings have been lucky enough to be unaffected by it until now. It will be harder from them to lose things they've had then to have never had them, so perhaps you need to push the angle that as a family you've all been fortunate so far but when one member needs extra support the whole family has to take the hit, as you're a unit. Point out that in the future it could be DD1 or DS who needs the family to rally round, you never know what could happen.

It would be unfair to move her from her present school when she has earned a scholarship because if she is doing well and has good support it is very foolish to walk away from that and hope that the next place is as good. It might be, but that's not a risk I'd want to take unless I had to.

Sounds like your task is to talk your DD1 around, unfortunately, but I do agree with those who say to point out that fair is that she leaves the grammar and goes to the comp with her sister. That might put things into perspective for her.

I think it's about treating them all with equal fairness. By keeping your dd2 where she is, you are equalising their opportunities.

I completely disagree! I think if DD3 is happy to go to the comprehensive (which you are all happy with?) then she should go there to avoid family discord. Dyslexia is taken seriously within the state sector; in fact state in general is more accepting of learning difficulties and supporting them (IME). What happens a couple of years down the line when the independent realises she might not get 'good enough' exam results and they have to 'let her go'?

At that stage you will have spent lots of money, cut down on family activities and things for the other DDs, and will have one or possibly two disgruntled older siblings.

I have two in independent and one in grammar. I think its reasonable, given the circumstances.

I'm not sure that the DD1's reaction is really against it, does DD1 know she was put in for a scholorship but didn't get it, however her sister did get it?

I would sit her down and explain that if she had got the partical sholorship, you'd have kept her in the school, but she didn't. As DD2 did get the scholorship, then she will get to stay.

That's not treating them unfairly, that's treating them the same, they had the same chance to stay.

It might be hard for your DD1 to hear that if she hasnt had the fact that she 'failed' explained to her, but important for her to see she has been given an equal chance.

I'd also ask her would she think it was fair that because DD2 now hasn't passed the 11+ to get into DD1's grammer school, does she think out of 'fairness' that she (DD1) should also be removed from the school and put in a comp with her sister? She needs to see that they've had an equal chance at the same things, the outcomes might be different, but they have been given the same chances, even if the end results aren't the same, that doesn't make them unfair.

It's an important lesson about what fairness means - it's not always giving the same result, but often just the same chance.

I think it's very unfair that that all three children will have to miss out on holidays and school trips/activities so that one can go to a certain school. If she could go there and the others could still benefit from holidays and trips, I would say go for it, but as it stands I think you're going to cause even more problems.

If I was 16 and knew my younger sister got to go to the school I wanted to stay at, and as a result of that I couldn't go on trips with my new school, I would be highly pissed off. It does smack of favouritism, especially when the local comp has to provide help for her SEN and when you could use the money you save from the school fees to pay for a tutor AND pay for trips for all three children.

I went to a grammar whilst my younger brother went to private as he wouldn't have passed the 11+.
I would definitely keep DD2 in the independent school.
If DD1 kicks up a fuss I would tell her, in no uncertain terms, to get over herself and live with it.

I went to an academic private school while my bro stayed at the comp.
He hated me for it, with a vengeance.
At present we have not spoken for 12 years.

If it was a full scholarship it would be a completely different matter and I agree you'd talk about winning things on merit. However it still requires a huge financial input which complicates things. Assuming average sort of fees that could be 40,000 over 5 years.

On the other hand, ThickOrSomething, there was an inequality in the two schools my children attended.

They're out to lunch together today. The elder is going at the suggestion and as a guest of the younger. Don't get me wrong. It's not paradise in our house; they argue like any others but the difference in the education they received isn't ever, ever raised and I can't see when it ever would be.

The thing is, although DD1 (and DS) won their school places on merit too, their schooling is not having any material or practical impact on DD2.

That is not true vice versa.

I would send DD3 to the state school.

It's not right to make your two other children forego school trips so dd2 can attend a school that will probably be better for her.
It would be different if she got a full scholarship or if she had a disability severe enough to need some specialist unit only available at that school. It is simply a nicer option for dd2 not necessary so dd1 will definitely see it as favouritism.
I don't envy you your decision though as it is only natural to want the best for our kids especially when we see them disadvantaged in some way. But as you saw by dd2 winning a scholarship, there are more ways to get on in life than academically.

I think keep her private
But if you think
they both tried for scholarships
Both effectively tried for grammar
Dd2 got scholarship
Dd1 got grammar.
But dd2 reward for not getting into grammar is a possibly better place at private.
I can see why that wouldnt seem right to dd1.
I went to a more expensive private school than dsis as i didnt get into the senior school. Dsis did still have the best opportunities as that
School was better. So i guess it evened out.

Out of interest is dd2 summer born?

My OH had one kid at private and 2 in comprehensive. It was what was right for each of them and they all did well and were happy where they were. No resentment, the other two quite cheerfully admit they'd have hated the private school.

So I think what is right for the individual kids will get you a long way.

I think another point about the scholorship your DD1 went for, if she'd been awarded a part, but not full scholorship, do you think you would have kept her there? Thereby lowing the standard of living for your other DC, or would you not have kept her there for anything less than 100% scholorship?

That's a good point Dino. If DD1 had won a partial scholarship what was your plan? Would you have told DD2 there wan't enough money for her to go to private school and she would get fewer trips and holidays so that her sister could go private? My guess is not.

It's not a fair comparison really, but neither is it fair to say DD1 failed the scholarship and they have therefore been treated fairly.

I went to private school on scholarship and my brother went fee paid. It was always a struggle for my parents but I am thankful that we were kept ignorant of the fact they had no idea where next year's fees were coming from. I felt guilty enough that they paid 1/3 fees for me, I can't imagine the guilt I'd feel if they told my brother they couldn't afford to send him to my school because they were paying my fees, with or without the scholarship.

Another factor is you say they will all get similar amounts of out of school activities and DD2 already does lots of these. Is it fair that she gets as much as the others when she is also getting the better school AND all the extra sports opportunities that that gives her inside school? It would seem fairer to give the grammar school children more extracurricular opportunities to make up for the extras DD2 will be getting in-school.

Hi all,

An update on the school situation:

I have managed to swing DH round to the idea of paying for DD2 to continue to attend the private school. He is understandably concerned about the financial implications it will have on our lifestyle, however he is in agreement that it is the better school for DD2, and that with the scholarship we could just about manage it. He has suggested that in order to “address the balance” DD2 may need to have smaller e.g. birthday and christmas presents, and no school trips apart from sport based trips which are part of her commitment to the school. The key thing would be cutting back on family holidays, as this would affect everyone (including me and DH!).

DD2 is now very keen to stay at the school, now that she has the scholarship. I think it will be the best place for her to succeed. Whilst several people on here have mentioned about people they know who have gone on to get straight A*s and firsts at uni, DD2 is not an academic. She will need to work very hard, much harder than either DS or DD1 to pass her GCSEs. It’s still a long time away, and we don’t know whether DD2 will go on to university, but we want to ensure the funds are available if she is able to and does want to go.

I am taking DD1 out tomorrow for some mother-daughter bonding time (think shopping with coffee and cakes!) as she has been feeling a bit put out by all of this. She seems a bit happier tonight than she was yesterday. I think it took everyone by surprise, and for her brought back some of the emotions from when she had left, and the difficulty she had in settling in to her new school.

As I mentioned, she was previously very upset that she was unable to stay at the independent school, although she has now settled. She found it very hard adjusting from being the top of a small non selective mixed school, where she was frequently recognised and praised (senior prefect, merit award etc) to a large highly academic and pressurised girls grammar, where she is no longer top academically. I expect that both she and DS will go to achieve just as highly academically as if they were in the independent, however the pastoral support and extra-curricular in the state grammars is not as good.

As far as the school goes, the scholarship is dependent on DDs involvement in sport, and unless she were e.g. to suffer an injury, I don’t see her giving that up. I don’t believe they would ask her to leave for academic reasons, it is a very inclusive school that takes children with a wide range of abilities.

For those of you who are concerned I am being favouritist, I’m not. I love all 3 DCs equally. All three have had different experiences, but any difference in money we have spent has been because we believe it is the right thing for their own personal development. We have spent plenty over the years on all three DCs encouraging them to develop their hobbies. We have probably spent a bit more on DD2, on extra SEN support (additional one-to-one support not included in school fees, a laptop for use in lessons), but she has needed the extra support, and DS and DD1 didn’t.

It sounds like things are moving forward...

Can I just ask though re school trips..Are some of the trips going to be required for the subject?

I haven't read the whole thread, but my initial reaction was something I have in a poster in my classroom.

'Fair and equal aren't the same. (Picture of three children if different heights trying to see over a wall.)
Equal (they all have same sized box, only 1 can see over the wall)
Fair (different sized boxes, everyone can see).

I use it a lot to help explain why some children get different help and different rewards at times.

I know this is simplistic but I believe it fits well.

It sounds like both girls would have the independent school as first preference and both have a second choice that meets their individual needs well.

I'm not sure that paying a large sum of money for DD2 to stay in the independent school when by the OP's own admission DD1 is at a school where the pastoral and extra-curricular stuff is not as good is fair and equal.

I'm not sure that paying a large sum of money for DD2 to stay in the independent school when by the OP's own admission DD1 is at a school where the pastoral and extra-curricular stuff is not as good is fair and equal.

Nor is DD1 at a super-selective grammar while dyslexic, non-academic DD2 goes to a comprehensive. Especially as DD2 won a scholarship DD1 had gone in for, but not achieved.

DD1 didn't get the scholarship but did get the grammar school place, plus us academic enough that an excellent uni is within grasp. DD2 is likely to struggle to get her GCSEs. The SEN support is far better at the private school. How is depriving DD2, who is already disadvantaged in comparison with her siblings in having SEN, solely in order to placate DD1, any fairer?

If DD2 also had a place lined up at the grammar, then I'd think that should be the choice, yes. But that isn't on the table. DD1 has to an extent won the genetic lottery in being academic - yet she wants DD2 to go to a worse school than her own, rather than as good or (in some ways) better?

I would keep her in her school. it sounds like it would be the best thing for her.

My friend, a doctor, visited inmates in prison for a while as part of a project she was involved with. She was struck by the high proportion of inmates who had dyslexia.

Her experiences are bourne our by the stats too.

In the population as a whole, between 4 and 10 per cent of people are affected by the range of learning difficulties classified as dyslexia.

At Pentonville it's something like 1 in 3, and a study done in London in found that, "among offenders of average intellectual ability or better, 62 per cent showed signs of dyslexia or some similar learning difficulty."

Let me be totally clear, I'm not suggesting your DD will end up in the nick! But instead to illustrate that people with dyslexia are at a disadvantage in our society, and it runs deeper than we might realise.

Also, there's a difference between your children. Dyslexia aside, I'd find it much easier to explain to two children that the reason their sister went to an independent and they didn't is because she won a scholarship (the siblings I presume didn't?) than I would to explain is to a child that we were not going to let her take the scholarship that she won, because it was not fair on the others.

It's not like they'd even be at the same school anyway.