AIBU to expect parents to control children even in the likes of Pizza Express

[Jewels234]

I know it's more of a family restaurant, but there are children all around me going mental. Screaming, having tantrums, standing on chairs. It's horrendous.

I am probably being unreasonable being here in the first place, but I love a leg gera salad.

Staring is a really good sign that no one has bothered to tell them it's rude (if they are over 4/5 years).

My ds1 was an active toddler who wouldn't sit for five minutes in his chair when we went out to eat. Because I don't want to bother other people trying to have a nice meal, we stuck to places like Brewster's which had play areas. Imo if children aren't able to sit nicely they aren't ready for a 'proper' restaurant.
Another thing that annoys me is the groups of mums who now seem to think Costa is an alternative to toddler groups. In our local Costa they love taking over several tables and sit for an hour and a half over one coffee while giving their kids drinks and snacks they've brought with them.

It was noticeably absent at toddler age in ds who is severely autistic. If older children do it, it can be a sign of sn.

Our local Costa or Starbucks (I forget which) does host a parent and toddler group lem

Ds used to stare at sparkly things etc but he didn't stare at peoples faces.

Ds stares at some people - today on the bus he was staring and beaming at a gentleman behind me, I don't know if ds thought he knew him , but he would not stop!

He also took to an elderly couple behind us in a NT cafe over the weekend, as we were leaving, he leant against their table and started doing a very excited dance with a lot of head shaking!! Fortunately they were very lovely about it!

Pizza express is quite posh where we live and although there are children they are never running around screaming. I think that they would lose customers if they did.

I didn't know that Mrsbobdylan, i don't think it's that bad as it's a momentary thing, not long enough to be intrusive.

I'd be really interested to know how you can "stare" at someone "momentarily".

Says the OP, who was using a mobile in a restaurant.

I think it is rather endearing when a child gazes solemnly at you. I usually smile at them and maybe wink or something like that. They are probably a bit bored. Or curious - and why not?
Children behaving like children is going to happen everywhere, including eating out. They've got to learn and most parents are engaging with them, praising good behaviour and trying to temper less desirable stuff as best they can. It's when a parent doesn't bother to stop their DC running around a restaurant that it becomes really annoying because the DC get hyped up and it's a danger for them and others. Fair enough, that parent engrossed on the phone while the child tears around under the wait staffs feet might have had a shit day, but so might the person at the next table, so compassion and consideration should be a two way street.

Eating out is usually a social occasion and many it is a treat. It's also a learning experience for smaller children and it can be a difficult time for children with additional needs who might be uncomfortable or scared.

I'd hope that anyone who saw a parent trying their best wouldn't judge and could be tolerant.

Agreed, too ^^

And my two were beautifully behaved, despite a long wait, in Frankie and Benny's, yesterday lunchtime, although there was a moment when a rather loud, excitable pirate made someone turn around. That was all over in a moment, though.

And it was packed, loud and full of people and all the kids in there were well behaved. I think the PP about the acoustics of a place is an important one. F&B's is usually full of carpets and upholstery and lots of wood. You're not overwhelmed by constant chair scraping and clattering. I wouldn't choose to eat there without the kids because I find the menu a bit stodgy, but it's one of the few places both boys can find stuff they like and can eat (ie no spice or cheese and crap and chips option for DS2!) and where they're able to feel comfortable enough not to get restless. I much prefer Zizzi if it's just me and DS1.

And DS2 spent 10 minutes staring at the ceiling fans, before deciding they were like Twirlywoos.

DS1 carefully avoided looking at the ceiling fans because they scare him a little.

ouryve they sound lovely

Notso it's one thing if it's officially organised by the cafe and therefore the cafe are fine with it. Otherwise it's bloody cheeky to let your kids run around the place when you aren't even buying drink or food for them. Meanwhile other people who have paid for their drinks and food can't have a quiet chat or even get passed the giant buggies.

I think it's quite easy with a but of thought to work out if a child has Sn or they are just naughty.

Really, I don't think it always is.

Ime the parent of a Sn child will also be interacting with them whereas the parent of the naughty child are usually glued to their phones.

But parent's of children with additional needs aren't any different from any other parent's, some will interact with their children, some can't be arsed - you don't get a halo and angel wings when you have a child with special needs (although sometimes I wonder if you get a tail, and that is why people stare)

Little children staring is how they learn to work people out they are just interested

Ilovesooty, I would be interested to know why it is 'not' possible to stare at someone momentarily?

I really do think expectations of behaviour are dependent on where you live as well. Where I live- Brighton & Hove, people are quite laid back and there is not a load of 'angst' over normal childlike behaviour in the cafes and restaurants that I visit. The park cafe next to my DS's school has a load of toddler/preschooler toys at one end that they can stand around and play with. It even includes toys on wheels that you pull along, which is inviting a toddler to walk around. My DD loves pulling toys- they have a caterpillar that she uses and I've only ever had positive remarks about her, a lady the other day told me to cherish these times as they are over so quickly. On the other hand I visit my Mum who lives 4 hrs away and parents are noticeably stricter, I'm quite surprised how many people don't take time to understand their very young children. I took my DC to the local library in my Mum's area which has recently been refurbished- it has a tunnel in the children's book section, playful furniture etc. a couple walk in with a boy that looked just under 2, he made excited noises, hurried to the tunnel and straight away the Dad was telling him off for being excited, he told him to come out of the tunnel and kept 'shhing' him, the toddler didn't really understand this level of preciousness or historically how libraries were quiet places and so failed the Dad's countdown to rectify his behaviour. Poor little boy was not allowed to choose any books and was led out screaming and crying. Ironically, making more noise and fuss as a result of the ridiculous actions of the father.

I know what your getting at Lem was just pointing out that it might actually be a toddler group.
The one I'm thinking of isn't particularly obviously a toddler group there is only one tiny flyer at the back of the shop so it's possible to think it's just a load of parents and toddlers hogging the tables IYSWIM.

A stare isn't a momentary thing. A momentary stare would be a glance.

Exactly TendonQueen