To think that all the people who say "fold your buggy" are being a bit daft?

[Pyjamaramadrama]

I regularly read threads on here about buggies on buses and they get quite heated.

The consensus seems to be that buggies should be folded.

Before anyone says anything I absolutely think that wheelchair users and other disabilities need to take priority for obvious reasons.

However the type of prams for newborns would be nearly impossible for a parent on their own to fold while holding a baby and possibly shopping etc. it's much easier with a toddler who can stand and a stroller which can be easily folded. But you simply cannot put a newborn in a stroller. I'm pregnant with #2 and I've searched for the most compact, easy to fold pram, but I still wouldn't fancy trying to board a bus with a floppy newborn while trying to fold pram and negotiate my bags.

Lucky for me I drive but I can remember being in the predicament with my firstborn of having to get the bus on older style buses and I simply couldn't do it, I had a lie flat pram where the pram needed to be removed to fold the chassis, packs of nappies and formula and newborn ds, I had no Internet access at the time so no online shopping and I ended up in tears once trying to board a bus and dropping everything and the driver and passengers just staring at me.

Also perhaps it is just where I live but all the new buses now have buggy and wheelchair zones so there is room for everyone most of the time.

As I'll say again wheelchair users do come first as ultimately a parent could probably walk if necessary, but why do some people seem to be so against anything which makes new parents lives easier? Maybe they've forgotten what it's like or haven't had to manage the bus alone with newborn.

Oh and my parents and grandparents reckon it was a nightmare with the old buses before buggy zones as they simply couldn't board the bus with a pram.

I'll admit to having a biggish pram and using public transport. We have a Silver Cross Linear as it has a very good adjustable handle - I bought the highest handle I could find. I'm 5'1", OH is 6'5" and he does his back in if he has to lean down too far to push a pram. I don't see why he shouldn't be able to push his daughter around in comfort.

I've only once had to move for a wheelchair. I didn't have to be asked as I was keeping a look out. I was able to fit up the aisle and then in to the other space when they were on. Saying that though I do try to avoid the bus at busy times. I either get a bus to town and a taxi home or the Supertram if I don't mind a walk. I've got a sling too which I use for shorter journeys on the bus. There is no way I could have used a sling with my first child though as I couldn't walk for 2/3 months.

I use buses from Woolwich every day, it can be horrendous. Even without a buggy it can be a stampede to get on. I never try and get on by the station in the rush hour, On my bus there isn't enough space, and there are always people pushed off. I used to take a buggy on that route, and it was difficult then, but these days there would be no point in even trying. The chances of getting on are less then 50/50 I should think. There are fights, the driver sounds an alarm, and the police come over..........

last time I got on a bus there with a buggy during a quiet time of the day, we were half way home, and the bus had emptied, as it does once you are away from the centre. There were three of us on the bus, two white women, and me, ( and I can pass as white) we all had babies and buggies with us. Another white woman with a buggy wanted to get on, and the driver said no, then I went up to him and said I could get off ( about half a mile early, so this other woman could travel) and he suddenly started screaming abuse at me, closed all the doors, wouldn't open them, wouldn't let e off, and starting yelling about how he had never thought he would sink so low as to have to spend his life driving white women around! This went on for some time, until he eventually let me off. I was shaking. I haven't dared try to travel on a bus with a buggy since - which means if I'm looking after my niece, I walk 5+ miles.

(I do have to say I have in the past come across many lovely and wonderful bus drivers but that has really knocked my confidence - you feel so vulnerable when you are responsible for a baby)

That was in December. i still wonder if I have left it too late to report.

Op yanbu and I so agree with some of these latter posts.

PND is a big issue these days and getting out is crucial.Mums feel more and more isolated these days with the cost of living,family living miles away,grandparents still working etc.

It's high time there was a campaign for proper buggy places on every bus to help young parents.

When Ds2 was upto 3 months old I used the bus more than normal as I could drag my SPD ridden hips 500m down the hill to the local shops, but I couldn't move my leg properly to walk up the hill to return. Ds1 sat on a seat on top of the pram.

If for some mysterious reason 3 wheelchairs appeared wishing to use the last 4 stops on the route, I'd have had to have rolled off, but folding the pram down would have been totally impractical. I couldn't cope with slings or baby carriers at that point, and I didn't want a double which would have been little better anyway.

YABVVU. And selfish and thoughtless and inconsiderate.

Who is she being inconsiderate towards? Not wheelchair users, as she has stated more than once they have first priority for the space.

I haven't been on a bus for a bout 30 years but surely bus companies are not obliged to cater for everyone. If you have a massive pram they are perfectly entitled to say ' not my problem'

sorry, just clarify, there were three buggies on the bus, two in the wheelchair space, and one folded in the luggage rack, so there wasn't space for another, even folded.

Charis, that was an awful thing to happen to you. I bet if you report it the bus company will know exactly who did it too, that is not normal behaviour. I think I would have a hat with the police - you don't have to take it further if you don't want to.

I haven't rtft but when this topic comes up it just strikes me how much easier everything would be if everyone was a bit KINDER. I look out for other people on public transport, I would help a mother who was struggling by holding her shopping, give up my seat for someone who looked like they were struggling and of course always give space to people using wheelchairs. Just as other people have looked out for me. And the vast majority of my travels on public transport have been fine as we have all been considerate to each other and show basic human decency.

The attitude that really doesn't help anyone is the self righteous one that sees a woman struggling with a pushchair and thinks it serves her right for making such a stupid choice to buy that pushchair/pram and try to take it on a bus.

(Or a man of course, a man could also struggle with a buggy. I wonder if people would have the same attitude or think he was a loveable buffoon who couldn't quite grasp women's things and amazing for even taking the baby out in the first place. Sorry off topic).

I've only skimmed the thread but I had a small lightweight Maclaren buggy 14 years ago before I could drive. About 5 mins before bus was due I'd put bag on my shoulder, pick ds up and the buggy was easily foldable with one hand. It wasn't hard at all. I think the key is to make sure the buggy is easily foldable and to practise at home first. I always found Londoners really helpful and more often than not some kind soul would help lift the buggy on the bus for me.

charis1
That sounds awful, you should definitely report it even if it was a few months ago.

It seems pretty grim getting a bus in woolwich, you're not wrong about all the pushing & shoving, alarms going off & Police being called.

On a tangent, I cannot stand it when some twunt gets on the bus with not enough money on their Oyster card.

Rather than do the normal thing and get off and recharge it (or pay with cash when you were still able), there is a stand off between them & the driver/rest of bus.

I recall they either got hounded off the bus or the Police were called while they sat at the back of the top of the bus.
Or a passenger steps forward and pays for them!
Sorry- off topic!!

From that point on I vowed never to be reliant on buses for travelling around!

This is totally understandable and why I agree with drivingmisspotty. It's important that everyone sees public transport as a convenient alternative to a car. If mothers are expected to struggle and be huffed at just because "that's what we did in our day" then they'll make alternative choices. Which is why, presumably, bus companies and Councils etc do cater for buggies, subject of course, as no one has denied but some people have wilfully ignored, to the fact that disabled passengers take priority.

Also, if you take your squirmy toddler out of the buggy then someone might have to give up their seat for you, as you really can't stand holding on to a toddler. Why is that preferable to standing next to them safely restrained?

YANBU, OP. We've used a Maclaren Techno XT since DD was born because of the lie-flat setting. DD (now 1) is disabled and very floppy. I'd still struggle to fold the pram while holding her. I've often ended up walking rather than try to fight my way onto a crowded bus and explain why no, I can't fold the buggy.

Well said helluv and the posters suggesting people be Kinder and more tolerant on public transport instead of self righteous and angry that anyone might have anything slightly easier than "in my day"... Some people would like life to be as awkward as possible for parents (by which usually I mean mothers - as someone else said somehow fathers are often cut a lot more slack when doing "mother work") even when making life a little bit easier for a mother would not impact at all on a wheel chair user as she would move for a wheelchair user or there are separate bays with room for all.

The "why should bus companies accommodate you?" line is so unpleasant as they already do and people are meant to be being encouraged to use buses instead of drive... apart from mothers of course,the only group in society who should welcome discomfort and inconvenience and being treated as less valuable or worth accommodating because other mothers did in the past...

I definitely recall waiting at bus stops in the rain,with the double buggy (one in front of the other),once dd2 was too big for the sling.With the raincover on,all the shopping underneath,and the dc's asleep,I certainly wasn't going to fold just in case a bus with steps came along.
If I could have measured my blood pressure waiting for the next bus to come along it would have been sky high willing for a low floor bus,rather than one with steps.
It was really stressful then,if one with steps did turn up and I had to wake them,and take the whole thing apart!

But you have to buy pushchairs according to all needs -I went through different combinations of travel system,double buggy,stroller,sling,and buggy board at different stages.Buses were always a consideration,but so was the fact that I had to get myself and the dc's 4 miles without pavements to get to the bus stop and back.I only went into town once a week at most -just to get out -as it was an all day drama.

'Just fold' ignores the whole purpose of having gone out with the baby in the first place: usually shopping. No matter the age of the baby, there is no where to put them during the process of unloading and folding, and once done, nowhere to put the folded buggy, or the nappy bag/packages.

In some circumstances the only answer is, therefore, exit the bus but first dont go out with baby further than you can physically cope if you must. Which is a very sucky answer, I KNOW. That enough friends and family dont always exist to run errands for new mums who shouldnt be out and about risking the need to carry what they cannot. That the only corner shops in some areas carry little stock useful for much more than providing a sugar or alcohol buzz, forcing women still recovering from whatever sort of birth to go miles away for even basic supplies.

Moma - there is, you take a sling to put baby in those few minutes, and a rucksack for shopping instead of loading pram like a pack horse

But why artandco can't mothers just use the buggy space instead? People on this thread seem utterly determined that they should not, whatever the level if inconvenience to do otherwise

And yes, if you've struck gold and thechild is asleep when you get on the bus you'd be mad to wake them!

My basket always has books in if we're going on the bus as I need them to keep dd still. If I packed light I would be told off for being ill prepared

Jesus slings don't suit everybody and you are left with it all day.

Our buses only come every hour and take best part of an hour to deliver you to a v spread out city that would take at least 2 hours to get round for any small amount of errands with 2 toddlers and a baby in tow.The extortionate cost makes you need to ensure said journey is worth your while ie you don't pop in for a pint of milk.

Buggy boards are crap on umbrella buggies which are crap to steer and tip easily with 2 seats filled and a load of crap hanging on the back anyway.

The zero empathy is utterly shite.All my kids are in double figures but I rem how tricky it was,shame others like to don very rose tinted spectacles re anything to do with transporting their dc when tiny.

of course they can use the buggy space. but our buses have signs that state at busy times people will be asked to fold down the buggy.

so using an available space is not U. of course not. but banking on being able to use it every time for the full journey without taking steps to make it easier for yourself is U.

any bus driver refusing to let a buggy on even if there's room or making someone struggle for the hell of it is an arse. but if he or she is a regular on the route and knows there are three old ladies two stops down with trollies and they won't fit on with the buggy without clogging the aisle and becoming a safety hazard then that of course means it is nit U to be asked to collapse. having said that drivers could also usher people upstairs, make people move their bags and allow others to sit down and generally do more to try and get everyone on comfortably.

but refusing to collapse fir someone with a greater need is and always will be U.

Any poster on this topic who says 'I absolutely agree that wheelchairs etc etc BUT.. ..' is being U

What I dislike about thi s attitude is that it seems to be that buggy users take it upon themselves to judge whether other bus users have a right to space.

And I repeat: I have seen wheelchair users and other people with mobility impairment been refused entry to a bus because THEIR space (by law) was invaded by buggies, and users who would not move. Who laughed.

The thing is if people with buggies who can fold did it would make life so much easier for other - be that other folders who could get on now, or the mum of newborn twins who wouldn't fit on otherwise, or the parent of a disabled child in a buggy.

MOST parents could fold, the just come up with daft reasons why they can't.