To think that all the people who say "fold your buggy" are being a bit daft?

[Pyjamaramadrama]

I regularly read threads on here about buggies on buses and they get quite heated.

The consensus seems to be that buggies should be folded.

Before anyone says anything I absolutely think that wheelchair users and other disabilities need to take priority for obvious reasons.

However the type of prams for newborns would be nearly impossible for a parent on their own to fold while holding a baby and possibly shopping etc. it's much easier with a toddler who can stand and a stroller which can be easily folded. But you simply cannot put a newborn in a stroller. I'm pregnant with #2 and I've searched for the most compact, easy to fold pram, but I still wouldn't fancy trying to board a bus with a floppy newborn while trying to fold pram and negotiate my bags.

Lucky for me I drive but I can remember being in the predicament with my firstborn of having to get the bus on older style buses and I simply couldn't do it, I had a lie flat pram where the pram needed to be removed to fold the chassis, packs of nappies and formula and newborn ds, I had no Internet access at the time so no online shopping and I ended up in tears once trying to board a bus and dropping everything and the driver and passengers just staring at me.

Also perhaps it is just where I live but all the new buses now have buggy and wheelchair zones so there is room for everyone most of the time.

As I'll say again wheelchair users do come first as ultimately a parent could probably walk if necessary, but why do some people seem to be so against anything which makes new parents lives easier? Maybe they've forgotten what it's like or haven't had to manage the bus alone with newborn.

Oh and my parents and grandparents reckon it was a nightmare with the old buses before buggy zones as they simply couldn't board the bus with a pram.

Thingummy - I'd like to see you call half of SE/SW London - selfish wankers for not moving upstairs to sit and selfishly standing instead.

FWIW on a crowded bus, of course they should move upstairs - I do! But sometimes mums with kids can't/won't take them upstairs due to kamikaze bus drivers…. etc…

I also see a few people who obviously have been working all day, don't want to sit or the free seats downstairs where they'd prefer to sit are taken so hence they stand. is that such a crime?

I've never seen a buggy-wheelchair war but I have seen buggy-shopping trolley and wheelchair-shopping trolley and they can cause a lot of grief!

People can do as they like. Fwiw I have never huffed at anyone standing downstairs, though it is annoying if people totally block the stairs when it turns out there's room up there. But there are plenty of online huffers on here who think people with buggies are selfish and entitled for avoiding quite a bit of personal inconvenience while defending the right of everyone else to do exactly as they like. Is a bit unfair. In real life I agree there is a lot more tolerance than appears on here

Hear ye hear ye!

Let it be known that half of SE/SW London are selfish wankers for not moving upstairs if they can, and causing a crush downstairs for the people who can't get up the stairs.

Yours sincerely,

ThingummyJigg of SW London

PS I couldn't differentiate between Joe Blow and someone who's obviously been working all day, yet doesn't want to sit down and/or the free seats downstairs of their choosing aren't free, hence they stand. That's quite specific unless you enter a bus with a clipboard and demand such details, or perhaps you can read minds? And tbh, those who'd rather stand than sit in a free seat, when their prefered free seat is taken, need to get over their diva strop and sit the fuck down or go upfuckingstairs.

Ok then thingummy like I said next time in your best "naice" or not so naice voice when you use the bus ask the standers to sit down and be prepared for death stares and the odd huff and tutt.

Also I recall years ago being on a hop and ride small bus that my friend with her 2 year old and buggy was on, we both got off at same stop where I recognised her and said hi but not before she'd huffed and puffed about no one helping her yet I hadn't seen her nor her me it was a general rant! She wasn't happy being a single mum and had been pampered up to then in life by parents.

Also thingummy i think you can tell a tired person eg commute times etc rather than a mum sometimes with all the time in the world!

longestlurkerever I agree totally.

I haven't huffed at the downstairs standees in rl as I don't know who can and won't/would but can't go upstairs from appearances, and also I'm not a huffer, I'm an inward eye roller. [terribly British moment]

However I do think the can/won't brigade are selfish.

I don't recall ever being on a bus when people stood when there were seats.

I have muttered 'I think there are seats upstairs' though.

Death stares and odd huffing and tutting don't bother me. I'm very polite in rl.

Don't understand your last sentence SFH, sorry. I think most mums are tired!

McClaren buggy folds flat for newborns and easily closes for bus journeys

YABU

Oh yes and now the general cliche that mums have nowhere important to be and all the time in the world. Actually last time I was on a bus with a buggy I was on my way to/from work with dd in tow so I could hand her over to dh en route. does that mess with your mind?

Ok, so the buggy is folded, where does it go?
Say you have a phil and teds double buggy, two small kids and shopping.
Someone says 'oh just fold the buggy'.
So, buggy I end up with a flat giant, buggy which needs to be put somewhere and 2 small kids and shopping. So instead of standing out of the way, I am taking up 2 seats at least.
I travelled off peak with my small kids and luckily never had to fold, but I think the choir of 'just be prepared' people are delusional.

I also don't understand the standing brigade. There are seats upstairs, sit in them, do not hang about in the aisle like sheep.

Gerbils - you don't get a Phil and teds, you get a much smaller pram and close gaps have to go in sling or walk. Trust me, 14 month gap here and I would never have coped using a double on tubes and buses in rush hour here. Eldest simply had to walk or baby in sling. Small buggies folded fit by feet

I don't understand some peoples attitudes. Anyone would think there are hordes of Londoners with nothing to do all day, so just clutter up the buses for the fun of it.

We are all just trying to get where we are going, work/school/nursery/home.

We are all public transport users.

A commuter with a baby still has to commute! I was a teacher, so likely to have a suitcase of marking as well as a baby in a buggy!

Bad things happen on the upper deck of buses.

Obviously it depends on the time of day and the route, but on my DC's route, between 4 and 6, and occasionally on the way to school in the morning , we have come across drunks, violence, sexual activity, drug taking, group masturbation, swearing, racism,gang intimidation, etc etc, not all directed at us, but I have twice intervened when I've seen other teens threatened and terrified, and last year my DS (13) was cornered by an abusive, threatening drunk, who wouldn't let him off the bus, and was making threats and insults against me ( not by name, just saying your mum is a fucking whore, I screwed her here yesterday, etc etc)

No one has to go upstairs if they don't want to.

I do, and if I'm with my DC we all do, but on their own, no, they are banned. Even now being that little bit older, they are still very vulnerable alone on the top deck, and 16 year olds are mugged MORE often than younger children on the London buses.

So lets just all get home the best we can, and look after each other in what can be a very crowded and unpleasant environment.

Am I right in thinking at a lot of the Maclaren type buggies that are supposed to be suitable from birth because they recline, don't actually let your baby lie flat like they would in a carry cot, but just rotate in the same sitting position, ie their legs are still bent? Because that doesn't seem too comfortable to me.

I don't know about a loy of McClaren buggies but I wanted a buggy that was easy to fold and stash on a bus taxi car and did some research.
MCClaren do a lie flat buggy for babies from birth...it might have been the XT
It was absolutely perfect - but there again I had no need for a giant tank pram

Starling - no they lie flat. Full flat, and many come with a cocoon type thing you can lift out with baby in. When you buy a pram it will say from 0+ if fully reclined or 6 months+ if only semi reclined

Some examples of small folding for newborns

www.mumsnet.com/reviews/pushchairs/strollers-and-buggies/17956-babyzen-yoyo-0

www.mumsnet.com/reviews/pushchairs/3-wheeler-pushchairs/9422-petite-star-zia

babyjogger.co.uk/product/city-lite/

Folded buggies and shopping go in a luggage rack or they wedge in or under the seats.

I've no idea why a regular bus user would get a P&T for use on a bus unless they were prepared to get off if a person with disabilities needed the wheelchair space.

I agree that some London buses are completely vile and unpleasant and getting off them alive is an achievement (no 43 springs to mind)

Gerbils If a wheelchair-user needs the space you will have to fold however awkward it is. And on London buses the rule is that you may have to fold at busy times to allow more passengers on.

I had a a Phil and Teds, with dd1 and 2, there is 13 months between them, and dd1 didn't walk until 16months. We were offered it for £50 so took it! We use buses on a pretty regular basis and walk a lot too. I did used to fold on buses, if we had too (I wouldn't have done it as a matter of course) - I won't pretend it wasn't a pita, but I did do it if necessary.

When I had ds, we switched to a nipper double, but dds would walk and I would put ds in a Maclaren xt (lies flat) or sling him.

Ds is disabled, so we sometimes had a situation where we would be asked to fold, which was very difficult. I tried putting a sticker on the buggy saying 'disabled child' but it didn't make much difference!

Now he has a sn buggy, it doesn't fold (although we have still been asked to on occasion) I have no problem with buggies not being folded if there is room for us all, and have helped parents fold buggies and held babies whilst they folded - on the whole we have been pretty lucky, but we have missed a few appointments and met a few arseholes!!

I got buses pretty much every day when on maternity and only had to fold my buggy once. Is this really such a major issue? I have a baby jogger city mini (bought second hand so didn't break the bank); it folds one handed like a dream. Definitely agree if you use buses a lot choose your buggy accordingly.

Umbrella fold buggies, by design, don't face the parent. I was not happy about having the baby facing away from me, and had heard it was better for their development to be talked to when out. My toddler otoh wants to see around and about.

That's good, then. I hadn't realised they existed! As I said up thread, my research was all about the safest travel system since there's no public transport where I live.

In an ideal world I suppose we would all have an array of buggies to choose from depending on what the day had in store. In reality we muddle through best we can, trying to be considerate if not selfless, and a bit of compassion helps smooth the ride. In real life I have come across quite a lot of this on public transport as well as the odd twunt.

Sorry all, I am not normally so argumentative but am 8.5 months pregnant and it's been a long weekend.

I got some filthy looks shot at me by several parents with buggies whilst travelling on the 2c from Victoria last week. I think they expected us to fold 2 wheelchairs so they didn't have to! (We were on the bus first)

I'm dreading May half term as DD wants to go to Tussaud's so we'll have to do batte with the buses gain. Just wish those bits of the tube were wheelchair accessible.

Oh and Brandy - completely appreciate the rear facing thing. Was even more important for DD as she's deaf too (as well as autistic and now a wheelchair user due to severe hypermobility). I had to accept that life isn't perfect though and had to use the maclaren if on the bus with her (sling if with DS2 and his wheelchair).

Now I can't go out on my own with the kids without at least one extra adult. Preferably two (DS1 also has autism and it's safer to have someone with him).

Can you see now why a 14mo in a maclaren, newborn in a sling seems easier?

Not just daft but also unrealistic. HTF can a women on her own fold down a pram as well as holding her baby and shopping.
Yes like you say disabled people take priority. No argument but babies are just as vulnerable. They can't walk or get about either, albeit only temporarily, but never the less.
It's the fold your buggy/ pram brigade that I blame for mothers feeling isolated and weary to go out.