How can you possibly believe in a benevolent God

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Once more, acts of 'god' have left communities blown apart.

Does any one really feel these vilages deserved it?

God's a bit of a cunt at times.

Also I don't think you can describe Jimmy Savile as a devout Catholic. He may have regarded himself as such but abusing the vulnerable as he did was not consistent with loving his neighbour as himself etc. A bit like saying the IRA are/were Catholic (even though they mostly did not regard themselves as Christians).

Also saying someone is a Muslim who is not actually following that religion (even if they think they are).

Doesn't mean that a God sitting on a fluffy cloud being benevolent and judging us all stands up to any analysis, but I don't think the existence of Jimmy Saville precludes the existence of any kind of "God".

We also, apparently, have free will because the big man upstairs says so. So if god knows what were doing and what we will do, then how is that free will? It's not, it's the illusions of free will.

Oh and if you aren't taking morals from the old testament, then you may forget about the ten commandments, as they're taken from the OT.

I'm all for respecting the beliefs of others - I think that's an excellent idea. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't question and challenge and ask 'what if' and 'why' and 'what then' - we should and we must. It's a fact that Christianity took the principles of Paganism and made them flesh incorporating a few oppressive and repressive principles along the way. I've said it before - I believe it - that it was fine for the times. The people wanted it and needed it. The rules and theories that worked back then simply do not work now and I accept that the believers write this off by saying 'you must have the faith' but by that same token I could believe that God lives in my computer and drives my thoughts. I could believe that and have faith in that - but that doesn't make it true or logical.

What's wrong with living a moral life, not hurting living creatures, respecting nature and being kind to ourselves and other people all the while possibly thinking there's got to be something bigger than us out there but we don't know what it is (or isn't) and it certainly can't have a face put to it.

I am agnostic but think if there is 'something' out there controlling what happens on earth, it is evil. And I say that as a healthy, wealthy, lucky person.

Questions are good FarFromAnyRoad, this is how I look at it. My human mind is small and is unable to understand the bigger picture. I trust in my God, that he is huge, and he knows what is going on. I think I would be arrogant to think I could compete with him. There are some questions I won't know, until I am in heaven. God has given me many answers to things I have struggled with, but that is a personal thing between him and I.

Earthquakes and volcanoes are byproducts of the plate system of the Earth's surface. The movement of the plates is the mechanism of creation for a lot of things, for example mountain ranges, rainfall and ocean current patterns, species of animals after an original form gets split apart by the movements. Geography has shaped the whole of mankind's political history and culture.
Presumably there is an element of not making an omlette without breaking eggs, on a geological timescale?
(This post is taking the position of discussing a God who does all the creating and overall stage direction but using the mechanisms people have discovered to exist, not a magic wand)

I love "God is a cunt".

Exactly my feelings about the fairytale figure.

Religious people are deluded and daft. No, I won't respect their silly beliefs.

farfromanyroad I think your last paragraph is very sensible. I'm not sure whether someone who lived that life would be considered religious or not religious though. That vaguely sums up my basic position (not that I'm necessarily good at acting in those ways but giving it a try) and I view it as a religious rather than atheist position. I feel it's more logical that there is some kind of force or just consistency at work jn the universe as a whole than just a random existence of stuff. Because I think humans have a capacity for free will that is different from other animals I err on the side of believing that we have a special role to play in nature and that too I would view as a "religious " position.

There are religious figures including Jesus who I conclude had a surprising amount of sense for the time when they lived, and I can't help but think this too is significant.

I love how God gets praised when 'miracles' happen but is never mentioned when tens of thousands/millions of human beings are randomly wiped out. Odd that.

Freudians, in the same way that Voldemort is a bit of a cunt?

We both know calling Voldemort a cunt is not going to get the same reaction

Belief in god/s is going to bring many many people in Nepal comfort especially now some may start to question their beliefs

But let's mock those who believe

All religions are very complex as a believer you are tested you will at times question your faith

Calling religions 'complex' gives it some sort of intellectual leaning, which believing in superstitions should never have. It isn't complicated. It is learned behaviour. I was fortunate to have bright parents that didn't indoctrinate me.

Can I recommend the film 'god's not dead' very interesting and deals with lots of questions. Personally I believe in God and that through Jesus my sins have been forgiven. When we die the things in this life won't matter anymore. We won't care how we died or even mind if we have left people behind because we'll be in a truly better place without pain or suffering. This life only lasts a handful of decades the nexts lasts for eternity.

For me God is the adult equivalent of Father Christmas or the tooth fairy.

Most people grow up and realise neither of these fabled characters exist......

You do realise that when you die, there is nothing, just as it was before you were born?

I remember what it was like before I was born, so do my two youngest:)

Bopityboo it's wonderful that you have found that faith and it helps you get through everyday.

I prefer to try just to be a good person to others as much as I can. The whole concept of sinning and being forgiven irks me. Religion gives people an excuse to behave however they like no matter how badly and then ask for forgiveness and have your naughty acts absolved??!

When i die i wont mind about how I died or who i have behind either. Would it be rude of me to point out this is not because my sins have been forgiven but simply because I will be dead.

I understand that I come across as very blunt, but when I've had many Christians trying to convert me back to the faith, it could be said that I get quite irritated about the hassle.

I'm actually a very caring person and would help as many people as I can. I've worked in nursing homes and rehab centres because I are about people. I just don't need religion to be a good person. I think it's bloody awful that some deity can dictate that you MUST worship him, love him more than your own flesh and blood, more than anyone else and love him enough to do what he asks, including killing your own child if he wanted that.

BTW, how many religions people would love their god enough to kill their own children if asked by god?

The religious writings are complex (imo) even if you believe they are just stories they are stories that make you ask questions

Not really sure what your parents have to do with this debate

Don't anyone bother reporting the 'God is a c..t' comment.

Mumsnet do not delete for blasphemy. Unless, probably, it involves using the name of another deity.

Crucifixion is very horrible and very showy Morelike . It suits the narrative. But it doesn't take very long.

Being crushed to death under earthquake rubble, for example, would be equally awful.

I don't mean to be flippant. My point is that the bible writers are a pains to point out the enormous suffering that god endured for us. Which was a bit paltry compared to this mass disaster.

I just don't need religion to be a good person. yy to this.

Then he is beaten, whipped and crucified which he does not bear without complaint. Nasty but not the worst thing in the world. Pretty quick really, and he knew he would respawn almost immediately.

You basically suffocate from not being able to use your lungs. It takes hours. Meanwhile you are in appalling pain from having nails through your hands and feet, thorns pushed into your head, etc, as an added bonus. And you are dehydrated and exhausted from lugging a heavy piece of timber through the streets.

Somersetlady not rude of you at all. I have a faith in something you don't. I also think if you truly have faith in God and Jesus you don't use it as an excuses to behave badly assuming it will be okay but instead you strive to life the best life you can.

Because I care about people, not are LOL

Mumsnet do not delete for blasphemy

And thank goodness for it, this isn't the 17th Century.