How can you possibly believe in a benevolent God

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Once more, acts of 'god' have left communities blown apart.

Does any one really feel these vilages deserved it?

God's a bit of a cunt at times.

I've read this whole thread looking for insight into the OPs question, as it's bothering me too.

We have instead,

• a debate about whether bad people who repent are more likely to get to heaven than good people who do not believe in (the right) god
• lots of arguing about whether atheists can/should 'rant' about god when they don't believe he exists
• a long discussion of the structural privilege of the CoE in UK public life, collective worship in schools etc.
• a few posters now and again interrupting the flow of the others' arguments to try and answer the OP's question
• quite a bit about near-death experiences, and what they (don't) prove
• and above all lots of to-ing and fro-ing about what christians and atheists do and don't believe, and whether it's rational to believe in god.

My take on the OP's question is 'how can God be worthy of worship if he doesn't prevent human suffering?' or perhaps even 'what kind of evil God would cause such suffering?'. Both of which are reasonable questions which can't be answered by 'there is no god'

I think the various theological explanations are broadly

1. God is testing us - making us stronger
2. Suffering is just part of a much bigger plan or picture that we can't see
3. Because of free will (but this only works if at all for man-made suffering not natural disasters)
4. The suffering is inconsequential because this life is short and won't matter once we're in heaven
5. The world is not as God intended it to be - because of Adam and Eve's fall

Personally I don't think any of those withstand scrutiny, and I think many Christians accept they don't. So how do they 'square that circle'? Madhairday tried to explain and came closest (Fri 1/5 12.24) but I'd be really interested in others' views.

Caps, sistermilly, mermaidhair, MrsBiggins, or any other Christians above, or lurking, I'd really like to know what you think. (Not to pull your explanation apart, just trying to understand an aspect of faith I really struggle with).

Hi TooBusyByHalf I have been thinking about your questions for hours! I am going to try my best to answer for you. I couldn't answer your question myself so I asked God myself. The reason for allowing suffering is hard to answer as a while. We need to look at each individual person and circumstance differently and separately. So even in something as a mass death as in an earthquake we still need to look at each person and circumstances seperately. I will give you my own private personal example that I have never shared. It is between God and I, but I felt it is important to help you understand. My dh died a year ago from cancer. I spent a lot of time in prayer and God told me that he didn't give my husband cancer. If my husband had regular checks he could have been cured. He left it for ten years. God used this opportunity to bring my dh to him. My dh turned to God, he passed away and is now in heaven. 5 days after my dh passed away I went to church and gave my life to Jesus. In the past year 2 of my children have done the same. When my children and I suffered, Jesus suffered right along side us. Heaven is our real home, that is our eternity and God wants us to be there with him. Every single situation is unique, and it would take millions of lifetimes for God to tell us the whys of each single one. I asked God why he let my dh die. He answered very simply, "I released him from his suffering". I know it's hard to understand, our human minds are so limited, we need to trust in God. If you have questions for your God, just ask him! Much love to you xx

While = whole

I've not read all the responses so someone may already have covered this but I think we are not so upset about earthquakes in themselves but about the number of lives lost. Sadly one of the reasons for such a huge loss of life in Nepal is poverty. Do we blame God for the poverty we see all around us or is it to do with injustice that humans have created? In the Christchurch earthquake in nz in 2011 just under 200 people lost their lives. It wasn't as strong but it was still v big. One reason fewer people died than in Nepal is because of better infrastructure and better disaster preparedness. Something a country like Nepal would struggle to achieve. So I'm just pointing out that though natural disasters occur, humans do play a part in the consequences of them, we can't just arbitrarily blame God. Often the people responding to these disasters are people and organisations of faith - their belief in a compassionate God leads them to do what they can to help others. We live in a v unjust and unequal world and I don't believe that is of God's making.

But Mermaid, didn't you ask why your dh got cancer in the first place? Yes, he might have been cured if he'd had checks, but that wouldn't have mattered if cancer didn't exist in the first place

*Icimoi , no I haven't actually ever asked him that. My dh got cancer as it is in his family. I am satisfied with my own explanation to that and have never ever felt the need to ask why? I ask God questions that I don't know the answer to. This is my relationship with my God, and I ask him what I feel I want to ask him. Somebody else may ask that question to their own circumstance. Let's say hypothetically, if something happened to me that I didn't understand then I would ask him, and he would answer me. Each circumstance is unique to each individual. Somebody else may get a different answer.

The thing about free will is a debate in itself because if god knows what the present and future things are that everyone will do, then we don't have free will, as our actions are planned by god for this bigger plan he has for us. The only way we will have true free will is if god doesn't know what we will do and everyone does something that changes his plan IYSWIM.

I don't believe there is a god, but I'm saying this from a 'if there was a god' standpoint.

So I'm just pointing out that though natural disasters occur, humans do play a part in the consequences of them, we can't just arbitrarily blame God.

sure humans play a part in the consequences. but god caused the actual natural disaster. While 200 in NZ sounds "better" than what happened in Nepal, that's still 200 lives where, in your reasoning, we did the best we could as a society. So, those 200 or on god's (or gods') tally.

But, Mermaidhair, presumably you don't know why cancer is in your husband's family? Or even why it exists at all? Are you not curious about that?

Both of which are reasonable questions which can't be answered by 'there is no god'

actually, isn't that the only answer? the point is to show that an all good god with a fallen world can't simultaneously exist.

I think the various theological explanations are broadly

I don't think any of those points withstand any scrutiny.

No that's actually not how it works, thankfully, because if they are dismissed out of hand then it is very unlikely that sufficient evidence will just 'appear', usually it requires investigation to find the evidence.

you are simply mistaken as to what is being dismissed out of hand, and what should be.

NDE's are a scientific anomaly. Anomalies are often rejected, overlooked or sometimes ridiculed. Those that study them are not going to be doing so from the current materialistic paradigm.

Anomalies aren't being rejected or overlooked. Clearly, something weird is going on that we are having trouble explaining. What's being rejected and ridiculed are the explanations for those phenomena, not that a weird phenomena is occurring.

*Icimoi , no I have never asked him why cancer exists. God will answer what is in your heart. You would make a fabulous Christian! I can see it's important to you, you can read your bible, go to a good church, pray, meditate, and have a real relationship with Jesus, then ask him! I would love to hear what he has to say to you.