Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

How can you possibly believe in a benevolent God

886 replies

partialderivative · 30/04/2015 23:01

Once more, acts of 'god' have left communities blown apart.

Does any one really feel these vilages deserved it?

God's a bit of a cunt at times.

OP posts:
ShotgunNotDoingThePans · 01/05/2015 06:56

Ah but it's about faith innit?

fairylightsbackintheloft · 01/05/2015 07:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsBigginsPieShop · 01/05/2015 07:12

All the focus is on the tragedy in this life. Compared to eternity in paradise, life on earth is a blink. It's awful for those left behind after any tragedy, but consider those who have died and where they are now. In heaven. Eternal paradise. God doesn't cause natural disasters to spite humans. Natural disasters happen. But through God's grace (and I mean that in its proper sense i.e that no matter what we do, if we repent and give our lives to God we are forgiven and loved unconditionally) we are granted a place in heaven.
It is a natural and human reaction to blame God. But he does love us, and you as an individual, even if you don't want to unwrap that gift.

YouBetterWerk · 01/05/2015 07:17

What's gets me confused and annoyed is when my religious friends, when something good happens 'Blessed be, it was gods will, god is good' blah blah. Yet when something bad happens, like an earthquake, my friend said 'It is not gods duty to stop bad things happening'
Whaaaatt?? So he can intervene and create good, but will ignore and cause bad??
Sounds like a douche.

JassyRadlett · 01/05/2015 07:17

but consider those who have died and where they are now. In heaven. Eternal paradise

Unless, of course, they picked the wrong deity to worship, largely by dint of being born into the wrong culture...

YouBetterWerk · 01/05/2015 07:21

MrsBiggins
I don't want to go to a heaven that's filled with thousands of innocent people who's painful and terrifying deaths, if what you're telling me is true, could have been avoided.
Thanks all the same.

JeanBodel · 01/05/2015 07:22

We grieve when people die for 2 reasons:
We will miss them
The person has not lived a full life and could have enjoyed many more years on earth

If you believe in an afterlife then the second reason is irrelevant because human existence is seen as only a shadowy prequel to the real event. And the first reason can be seen as selfish - do you really want your loved one to come back from heaven just to make you happy? This is why in Anne of Green Gables it is seen as inappropriate to grieve too much.

Generally humans nowadays consider all suffering as negative. What if God finds meaning in suffering? A trite example would be when we force our children to brush their teeth: in the child's eyes we are oppressing them and hurting them. Oscar Wilde found meaning in suffering when he was sent to prison, as we see in De Profundis.

What was Jesus's reaction to suffering? He was deeply moved, he wept, he sympathised. But he did not avoid suffering for himself and he did not prevent it for his friends, some of whom he knew would die for their faith.

I believe there is some value and meaning in suffering that God sees better than we can. What if to God, benevolence does not mean 'Ensuring every moment of life on earth is pleasant and easy'?

MrsBigginsPieShop · 01/05/2015 07:25

That's grace. God's love extends to everyone, whether they know it or accept it.

FeijoaSundae · 01/05/2015 07:28

MrsBiggins - do you honestly not see the fundamental inconsistency in your own post...? Hmm

'If we repent' ... 'we are loved unconditionally'.

Those poor people who've died in Nepal aren't all in heaven/paradise, are they? Not if they haven't 'repented' to the 'right' God.

He doesn't love me as an individual. He only loves me if I repent and decide to believe in him. Confused

FarFromAnyRoad · 01/05/2015 07:28

Maryz

I like the spirituality aspect, the "do the best you can" and "be nice to others" bits, but not the religion/omnipotent/vengeful aspect of it all

I could create a rather nice God

Which is precisely what those apostles and disciples did all those years ago. They created a deity to suit the times. Now we understand so much more we can mostly see that all that is wishful nonsense. It's certainly time that someone created a new God for our times. I have some ideas and I think they'd be rather good actually. So Maryz I'll meet you at Costa at 10am Sunday and we'll knock a few ideas about and then get the marketing people onto it. Sound like a plan?

MrsBigginsPieShop · 01/05/2015 07:29

Heaven is full of people who have died millions of ways. But how they died isn't perpetuated in heaven...

FeijoaSundae · 01/05/2015 07:32

And Hell is full of people who've died millions of ways.

MrsBigginsPieShop · 01/05/2015 07:33

You are loved unconditionally either way Feijoa! My poor grammar construct, sorry. By repenting to God you come to know him, but he still loves you as an individual even if you don't.

fatlazymummy · 01/05/2015 07:35

Yeah, there must be real value and meaning in having to lay under tons of rubble in pitch black, alone ,in pain, dying minute by minute of dehydration, slowly giving up hope of being rescued, ever hearing a human voice again, not knowing if your children made it out alive, what will become of them without you.
Especially if you've never done anything wrong, just tried to make the most of the hand you've been dealt. Whilst around the world other bastards torture rape and murder other people and get to live a nice long happy life and get a nice easy pain free comfortable death.
Really makes sense. Oh wait, no it doesn't.

JaWellNoFine · 01/05/2015 07:35

'If you would like to know the answers to your questions, read and study the bible, go to church and have a personal relationship with God and all will be revealed. Don't expect answers immediately it happens over '

I dunno about that
I went to church, 2,3 Times a week. And a Catholic school. I studied the bible and went to catechism. But I question illogical nonsense and fiction. Hence... I reckon Catgirl has it right.

If this God exists, he displays some of the worst traits of humanity.
If he killed or allowed the deaths of thousands to teach us a lesson. He is fucked in the head and one sick bastard.

YouBetterWerk · 01/05/2015 07:36

Mrsbiggins
I have never felt more free or happier than when I realised I was an atheist. That this is all there is was a difficult but liberating lesson and I try to do good, make the most of every minute, because all evidence points to this being all there is.
I am a good person, I volunteer for my local community, I raised £2,300 for domestic violence charity, I love my family, my friends, and am kind to strangers. If what you're saying is true then, because I don't believe in your specific god, I will not get into heaven.
Whereas my friend who lies, has cheated on every partner he's ever had, spent time in prison for fraud, will get in because he believes in your god and he can be forgiven.
Nice.

JassyRadlett · 01/05/2015 07:37

But, Biblically, despite the fact he loves them (not enough to send Christianity to them on an equal basis to others), they don't get in to heaven.

I know Christians differ wildly on this and that's part of the issue - the theology is constantly changing based on what is culturally comfortable and becomes increasingly inconsistent with (a) other Christians' beliefs and (b) the source text for the religion.

Thisishowyoudisappear · 01/05/2015 07:38

So what would the world be like if God was omniscient, omnipotent and benevolent?

Pantone363 · 01/05/2015 07:38

Leta be honest, religion is just a salve for the utterly terrifying prospect that we are all going to die. Cease to exist. Expire and be gone.

Solution = we all go somewhere nice and meet up with the people we love, no need to be scared.

But you kind of need a back story to make people believe. Hello organised religion.

Icimoi · 01/05/2015 07:39

if we repent and give our lives to God we are forgiven and loved unconditionally) we are granted a place in heaven.

But that shuts out, amongst many others, young children and those with severe learning difficulties or mental health difficulties. Should we give our lives to someone as arbitrary as that?

MrsBigginsPieShop · 01/05/2015 07:41

youbetter well, actually, your argument is right, if a bit of an extreme example.
I am talking about Grace - our relationship with God and how much he loves us. Nothing we can do, either bad OR good, will affect God's unconditional love for us. Just as we can never do enough to repay God for the sacrifice he made i.e good deeds, we can never do anything bad enough for him not to love us i.e bad deeds.

YouBetterWerk · 01/05/2015 07:41

Jassy
Exactly, it's like it gets watered down the more he gets disproved.
Big Bang? Oh, god made that happen, didn't create it in 7 days at all, that's just for the story. Dinosaurs? He put them there. Funny how that part wasn't in the bible. Science and medicine? He gave us that knowledge.
I actually have a weird respect for the card carrying creationists, for their dedication to ignoring the facts.

laughingcow13 · 01/05/2015 07:41

I thought that suffering was supposed to e a sign of gode favour

YouBetterWerk · 01/05/2015 07:43

mrsbiggins
I'm sorry, but how can you be ok with what you're saying?

Jimmy Saville was catholic. Is he in heaven?

Morelikeguidelines · 01/05/2015 07:46

I don't believe in the kind of God that is a conscious being.

I think God is what we mean by a force for good and for creation. Some might call that nature.