How can you possibly believe in a benevolent God

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Once more, acts of 'god' have left communities blown apart.

Does any one really feel these vilages deserved it?

God's a bit of a cunt at times.

How can you suggest a belief in nothing? That is a non- belief.

Like being a non-stamp collector.

OK, capsicum, you win. You have now made it impossible to debate the subject with you without appearing insensitive to the issues you have had with your child's additional needs. Wow.

Lazarus. Do you find it difficult to have an unwavering belief in the existence of gravity?

Caps, you've spoken at length about the pain your child's exclusion from many aspects on mainstream exclusion caused you - and it sounds extremely tough.

But it isn't a competition in which your child had it worse, so no one else should mind. One might expect you to have a little more empathy for those of us in the position of saying 'I think this is the best option, but it comes with detriment to my child'.

However, that involves trying to look at the situation from another's perspective, which I thinn from previous conversations you find quite difficult.

It's by looking at things from the perspective of others that brings me to the position where I say I don't want children to be taught that religions are wrong / gods don't exist in school, despite that being what I think. Because I want schools to be inclusive as much as they possibly can be.

Lazarus, you cannot believe in nothing. You can however refuse to believe in something for which you consider there is no evidence. I assume, for instance, that you do not believe that there are pink elephants flying in the sky at this moment. That does not amount to a belief that other people have to respect.

Icimoi - I've been on mumsnet for a while ??

And, Lazarusbal?

Icimoi - Ps don't know if you noticed the thread title or op. Unless you thought it it was some other religion getting the flack this time?

Nope, Lazarus. I have a lack of belief in any religious constructs. Dont you see that it's rather arrogant and rude to assume that's 'nothing'?

I believe in many, many things. Gods aren't among them. That's not strong at all. It's akin to my lack belief in dragons.

Saying it's 'strong' and a 'belief' comes from a certain position of assuming your position, and your god, is the default. Can you see the problem in that?

Just pointing out my own limitations in empathy, Hak, Jassy as in I have some difficulty empathising with people who complain voraciously their child missing whole school assembly is terrible. I have experienced worse lack of inclusion than this which gives me a somewhat different perspective.

Hakluyt - why on earth would I find something just had to take on faith hard to believe in?

You've said that, and we've all agreed that your experience was not nice and not something we would choose to experience.

Wildly exaggerating what either of us has said does not make you more convincing or compelling.

You don't have to take gravity on faith. It can be observed and tested.

But again I would point out that I would support a system with no opt out, in that everyone would make a choice for their child. I would also support anyone in school who wanted opt out to be handled fairly, in that the children who are opted out of worship only miss the worship in school and nothing else.

I have only read the first and last pages so someone else may have said what I am about to say.
If we fully understood the nature of God then God would not be divine, he/it/she are beyond all human understanding.
To give the pronoun 'he' suggests a patriarchal figure which in turn suggests involvement on a human level.
I believe in God the Creator of potential and not God the manipulator.
There are billions of planets in billions of galaxies. I think the incomprehensible Divinity provides the makings of perfection for each planet then moves on to allow it to develop at the mercy of its Nature and the routes taken by its inhabitants.
There will one day be understanding I think but not here and not us.

Lazarus, you are assuming that the thread is full of Christianity "getting the flak". It has been pointed out to you that the thread is not in fact full of flak, but you choose to deny that despite the fact that you haven't bothered to read it. Do you not detect an element of weakness in your argument?

I think that it is a very personal think to believe or not believe in God or have faith of some kind. For many millions of people worldwide having a faith offers comfort and hope. YABU.

missda- it's not just a personal thing though. That's the problem. As capsium and others have demonstrated the church wants to interfere in the lives of others, whether we believe or not.

"I think that it is a very personal think to believe or not believe in God or have faith of some kind"

Well, it certainly should be. Sadly, it isn't.

icimoi no longer an assumption. I've read the thread.

Lazarus, out of interest, what did you object to? I'm honestly interested. As I've said, for me there is a big gap between disagreeing with Christianity and mocking Christians.

Lazarus- could you point me in the direction of a couple of mocking posts? Are any of them mine?

Sorry to those I offfended. I am still in awe of people who are THAT sure that this is it. Nothing after. Totally gobsmacked how you can repeatedly tell people how much you respect them and still get dogs abuse. Mumsnet at it's best.

" get dogs abuse"

Eh? Where????????

Lazarus, there are many things I'm not sure about. There are many things I don't know. That doesn't alter the fact that that I don't believe in any gods. Religion isn't the only answer to what we don't know - and it's a little arrogant to present it as a binary choice.

I don't understand the phrase 'get dogs abuse' but I'm foreugn. Cod you explain? And perhaps give details on where Christians were mocked? I'm particulay concerned if it were me, for the reasons I've stated.

*foreign.