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Original poster

How can you possibly believe in a benevolent God

886 replies

partialderivative · 30/04/2015 23:01

Once more, acts of 'god' have left communities blown apart.

Does any one really feel these vilages deserved it?

God's a bit of a cunt at times.

OP posts:
JassyRadlett · 01/05/2015 21:48

No I'm sorry I think you're wrong. They can't have it all ways, if they believe there is no God there is no point in ranting at all, it would be pointless, they'd be talking about something that is non existent.

This has been dealt with numerous times on this thread. Your argument is only supportable of the cocept or idea of the Christian God, and its manifestation through the religions that believe in that god, does not in any way affect or impinge on those who do not share that belief - whether through culture, institutions or other aspects of our lives.

That state of affairs demonstrably does not exist, so your position is a fallacy. I know enough about the concept of the Christian god to be a able to articulate and evidence fairly clear opinions on the nature of that deity.

And separately, I am able to have opinions about the nature of characters in works of fiction. It isn't a huge stretch - we teach children to do so at school.

Binkybix · 01/05/2015 21:50

They can't have it all ways, if they believe there is no God there is no point in ranting at all, it would be pointless, they'd be talking about something that is non existent

This is not true. I don't think God exists but I can talk (not rant!) about how people's construct of God has a negative impact when I think that's the case and therefore how I don't like those aspects of it. I don't really understand how you can argue with this really. You can think they shouldn't do it, but it's very odd to say that because people donut they must therefore believe in God.

Apart from anything else I find the use of the word ct when talking about God disgusting, blasphemous and said totally to provoke

I don't really care about blasphemy but I don't like to upset people for the sake of it so I personally wouldn't have chosen those words. But please take on board that it's annoying to be accused of ranting due to having a differing view point.

Binkybix · 01/05/2015 21:53

jassy put it much better than me!

headinhands · 01/05/2015 21:57

the Church disagrees with drowning people in the Med because you don't like their origins

Only because it ignores/analogises the OT flood.

capsium · 01/05/2015 22:00

Binky if you believe God is a construct, then who owns the construct? The people whose construct it is, ie those who hold it, or you?

I would say I have power over my own 'constructs', I can believe what I like. I prefer the (Christian) God I believe in, to the one you are describing.

So thanks but no thanks.

hiddenhome · 01/05/2015 22:05

God only likes nice, white, middle class folk. Everyone else deserves to be squashed. He is fickle and unkind from what I can tell Hmm

All the endless sucking up to Him is annoying too. A huge waste of energy.

Humans created God. Humans are fickle and unkind too, hence the similarity.

Binkybix · 01/05/2015 22:07

Of course you can believe what you want - choose the bits you want and not those you don't. I don't care.

But there is a general construct of the concept of God and it just doeesn't follow that someone who dislikes the power/disadvantage that construct has on those who don't believe it therefore must believe in God. It just doesn't.

Binkybix · 01/05/2015 22:09

Also I haven't described a construct at all, so don't know what you mean to not preferring the one I've described.

JassyRadlett · 01/05/2015 22:09

Capsium, that's fine, but there's some pretty standardised textual descriptions of the Christian god, perpetuated and disseminated by organised religion (including in state schools as the 'norm') and having an impact well beyond the minority of the population who believe in that (or any) deity.

Discussing and holding views on that basis is entirely reasonable.

JassyRadlett · 01/05/2015 22:10

(Plus what Binky said.)

capsium · 01/05/2015 22:11

Your 'general construct, of my God is not one any Christians, I know, hold, Binky.

JassyRadlett · 01/05/2015 22:12

What's Binky's 'general construct'?

capsium · 01/05/2015 22:14

Jassy arguing over what you believe people hold in their own 'imaginations' is pointless though.

capsium · 01/05/2015 22:15

Binky if you held the same 'construct' as me, you would believe as I do...

Hakluyt · 01/05/2015 22:21

I would not say God was a cunt either. Partly because it's not a word I use and partly because I try very hard not to be rude or offensive.

But I object very strongly to being accused of "ranting" when what I am doing is disagreeing. This is a very common, and very annoying and transparent attempt to derail and silence. Please don't do it.

JassyRadlett · 01/05/2015 22:24

Unfortunately, it's not simply in people's imaginations. It's in scripture, theology, education, reflected in legislation, and has been for a very long time.

Saying there is no external and consistent source material for the Christian god is nonsense.

capsium · 01/05/2015 22:27

Jassy yes, but your understanding of scripture is different from my own, Christian, understanding, otherwise, put simply, you would believe.

Sistermillyrose · 01/05/2015 22:30

There really is no point in arguing over it. I don't understand why non believers get so wound up by people who do believe.
Having opinions on the nature of characters in works of fiction is not a rational comparison. In works of fiction there is no question of the character being real. I'll stand by what I said, if there is no God, don't rant about how he allows disasters. No need to mention him.

JassyRadlett · 01/05/2015 22:30

Er, no. You've extrapolated from text to develop your own idea, which is fine.

I used to believe in the Christian god, then dos more reading and investigation. My understanding of the texts did not change - basic reading comprehension, essentially - but my view of whether they were truthful and inspired by a supernatural being certainly altered.

JassyRadlett · 01/05/2015 22:34

Sister, I've explained that repeatedly. If Christians kept their god and their other beliefs to themselves and Christianity was not entwined with culture and the state and occupying a position of privilege in our society - and desperately keen to maintain it - most of us would have precious little interest in your god at all.

Sadly, that is not the case. Your god, and the accompanying theology, has a daily impact on my life.

capsium · 01/05/2015 22:35

Ahem...I beg to differ Jassy. What makes you Pope? Not that I'm Roman Catholic...

CoteDAzur · 01/05/2015 22:35

Re Nepal - If ever there were proof that prayer doesn't work...

JassyRadlett · 01/05/2015 22:41

Oh which point? It's a logical fallacy to say that you consider the Christian god to be derived from the same scripture as I have read and studied, but then to say I cant understand that text if I don't share your faith.

Our concepts of your god differ in that I think it's fivtional, you think not. I'll give you that. Where else do we differ in scriptural interpretation (or Binky, considering that's where you started).

You set it up as 'my concept of God exists only to me' - which is fine, up to you, I simply pointed out there's an understanding of what the Christian god is that is shared by millions of not billions of people.

Hakluyt · 01/05/2015 22:41

Sistermillyrose- can I ask you to read this post of mine which I have C&P from earlier? It explains my position, and perhaps that of some others.

Why do you all care so much? Why does it make you so angry that some people believe in God?

As I say on every single one of thise threads, a) I am not angry because some people belive in God - wanting to debate about something does not mean you are angry- it means you are interested. However b) I am angry when anyone thinks that by virtue of their beliefs (in anything) they have a right to special treatment, or to impose their beliefs on me.

It's like smoking. It's interesting to debate about smokers rights or lack of them and the libertarian argument. And if people choose to smoke in their own homes that is entirely their business. But if they start insisting on their right to waft smoke in my direction, or to have special smokers houses built for them at the tax payers expense, or tell my children that smoking is a good thing and look, have a puff at one of mine, then I get cross.

capsium · 01/05/2015 22:48

Oh which point? It's a logical fallacy to say that you consider the Christian god to be derived from the same scripture as I have read and studied, but then to say I cant understand that text if I don't share your faith.

Not, if you consider human understanding to be individual. The Bible says that in this life we know only in 'part'.

Our concepts of your god differ in that I think it's fivtional, you think not. I'll give you that. Where else do we differ in scriptural interpretation (or Binky, considering that's where you started).

This is enough. But I also strongly suspect your reasoning, as to why you think, as you do is different to my own.

You set it up as 'my concept of God exists only to me' - which is fine, up to you, I simply pointed out there's an understanding of what the Christian god is that is shared by millions of not billions of people.

Yes, the non (Christian) believers. As I said before if you had the same appreciation and understanding, as myself, you would believe.