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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

How can you possibly believe in a benevolent God

886 replies

partialderivative · 30/04/2015 23:01

Once more, acts of 'god' have left communities blown apart.

Does any one really feel these vilages deserved it?

God's a bit of a cunt at times.

OP posts:

Blistory · 01/05/2015 18:19

I must have missed the rescue boats funded by the Church that patrol the Med. Probably because I was listening to one refugee on the news telling how he was escaping religious persecution.

DoraGora · 01/05/2015 18:41

The Catholic Church claims it inspired one, the Migrant Offshore Aid Station (MOAS). But, it's actually funded by a private couple. The Christian Aid mission is Greece is exemplary, though. And, indeed, the EU decision, promoted by Theresa May, to cancel the Mare Nostrum marine rescue mission and replace it with the much smaller one, which has failed so catastrophically, not to mention tragically, has been a secular endeavour, yes.

JassyRadlett · 01/05/2015 18:45

How is it a secular endeavour?

JassyRadlett · 01/05/2015 18:47

I mean, if you are conflating 'government' and 'secular' that is an awfully long bow to draw when you view things through a European prism.

Blistory · 01/05/2015 18:47

There's no such thing as a secular endeavour in UK politics given the influence the Church of England has.

Tell me, whilst you're determining the moral superiority of Christians over all others, why is it that a person who lives their life trying to do good, not for the sake of a place in heaven or because Jesus tells them so, but for the sake of humanity, has less moral worth than anyone else ?

JassyRadlett · 01/05/2015 18:53

Theresa May describes herself as having a strong Christian faith, incidentally.

Hakluyt · 01/05/2015 18:56

What on earth do you mean by "a secular endeavour"?

DoraGora · 01/05/2015 18:58

I wouldn't say that anyone planning to withdraw Operation Mare Nostrum was planning to do good. In fact, declaring it a pull factor for migrants, as Theresa May did, I'd describe as planning to do harm. And it worked.

If the Church has moral guidance over the affairs of the UK state (and I'm not convinced that it does) some influence, maybe, then it can only be a good thing, in my view. It's very much against the spread of food banks. But, I don't see them disappearing any time soon.

Hakluyt · 01/05/2015 19:02

So do you think the UK government decided to pull out of funding Mare Nostrum because it's secular??? I have never heard such rubbish in my life!

Hakluyt · 01/05/2015 19:03

"I'd argue that the Church is by far the best moral force that Britain has and without its guidance we'd be a far worse country than we're trying hard to be at the moment. "

How would you argue that?

ouryve · 01/05/2015 19:09

Dora - it's not just faith schools. All schools are expected to undertake a daily act of worship.

JassyRadlett · 01/05/2015 19:16

How can it 'only be' a good thing? Religion doesn't automatically confer benefit - often quite the opposite.

How is it a good thing to discriminate against children of other faiths in education?

How is it good to knowingly use selection processes to exclude the most disadvantaged children from education at church schools?

How is it good to divert £30 million of NHS funds to provide religious services, rather than self-funding services for religious adherents?

How is it good to campaign against equality?

How is it good to expect millions of people who don't share a certain faith to have public policy determined by religious beliefs and teachings?

How is it good to expect tax breaks and special funding for rich institutions when that money may better be spent on those in need?

How is it good to cover up a history of abuse, and how precisely does that confer moral authority?

JassyRadlett · 01/05/2015 19:17

In fact, declaring it a pull factor for migrants, as Theresa May did, I'd describe as planning to do harm.

Yes. A 'strong' Christian said those things.

Blistory · 01/05/2015 19:19

Dora, The Church or Christianity ? From what I know, the terms are not interchangeable and many Christians are opposed to the rigid dogma of the Church.

If you want to have faith and worship, crack on, I have no interest in ridiculing that but the minute you tell others that the Church should guide their lives and affect their education, their legal system, their work, their politics, their personal lives and beliefs is when your beliefs lose their claim to a greater morality than mine. Your morality as a Christian is no greater or lesser than mine as an atheist.

Hakluyt · 01/05/2015 19:59

Tony Blair and Ann Widdecombe are both committed Christians.

ilovefiltercoffee · 01/05/2015 20:13

I don't think any one religion or religious life covers what god 'is'.

I think god is life / life is god. I mean how amazing that there is life and all the shapes it takes on. The fact that there is something in this universe rather than nothing means to me that life is and God is. I also believe in my own version of karma as a kind of energy that you carry around based on your, thoughts and deeds. This 'energy' is reflected in your relationship and other aspects of life.

ilovefiltercoffee · 01/05/2015 20:28

"I don't believe in the kind of God that is a conscious being.

I think God is what we mean by a force for good and for creation. Some might call that nature."

This is what I think too.

NickyEds · 01/05/2015 20:50

ilovefilter how do you reconcile this belief in karma with a one year old suffering then dying of leukeamia yet a nazi war criminal escaping and enjoying a full life? I don't mean to be antagonistic, I'm genuinely interested whenever I hear someone say this as I simply couldn't "square that circle" myself. If God is the force for good do you also believe in a devil?

Hakluyt · 01/05/2015 21:08

"I think god is life / life is god."

So why does God need to be there at all?

Binkybix · 01/05/2015 21:26

The OP clearly stated that God was a ... That implies she thinks he exists. Is that hard to grasp

Your very literal, aren't you? You said that people ranting about God proved they thinks he exists. As I said, it's the construct of God people will be talking about in the vast majority of cases.

The OP may believe in God and that he's a cunt, of course. Or she may have been beeing sarcastic. Either way you're contention that ranting about God means you must believe he exists is wrong - it's been proven on here because people who don't believe in him have said why they think if he did exist he'd be a cunt.

Although I'd say those people weren't ranting - they were discussing and happen to disagree with you.

Sistermillyrose · 01/05/2015 21:28

So why does God need to be there at all?
God is the light of the world.
Without him there would be no life.

Hakluyt · 01/05/2015 21:32

"So why does God need to be there at all?
God is the light of the world.
Without him there would be no life."

Problem with a statement like that on a thread like this is that it gets us no further forward. Any more than me saying "There is no God" would.

FarFromAnyRoad · 01/05/2015 21:34

God is the light of the world.
Without him there would be no life

Would it be awfully impolite to ask people to precede such statements with "It is my belief that..............."

Sistermillyrose · 01/05/2015 21:34

who don't believe in him have said why they think if he did exist he'd be a cunt. No I'm sorry I think you're wrong. They can't have it all ways, if they believe there is no God there is no point in ranting at all, it would be pointless, they'd be talking about something that is non existent.
Apart from anything else I find the use of the word c**t when talking about God disgusting, blasphemous and said totally to provoke.

Sistermillyrose · 01/05/2015 21:37

Farfromanyroad yes but by the same token there are many on here who say "There is no God", shouldn't they precede those statements with the same words.

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