Cameron's finally grown a pair.

[likalixer]

Think I'll vote Conservative.
Sorted! after days of indecision

Of what? Horns? To go with his forky tail and pitchfork?

I hope someone from the Greens is here to read ArcheryAnnie's comments. I agree with her. I will never vote Green again until they reverse their ridiculous position on letting traffickers and pimps inform their attitudes towards traffickers and pimps.

They are consequently suggesting decriminalising sex traffiking, one of the most arseholey positions for a serious political party to take since elements of Labour flirted with the PIE.

It's not liberal and trendy, it's dangerous and criminal.

I have already sent off my postal vote, but watching last night just totally reinforced my decision.

Just want to fast forward a week now.

...of horns?

Totally agree on the point about the Greens. SO SO annoying as the environment is something I feel hugely strongly about. Have voted Green in the past, but just can't now. Why on EARTH are none of the main parties even mentioning it? Drives me mad.

Hillingdon. I am a retired lecturer. I retired to look after a seriously ill dh. I get £65 a week for working an eighteen hour day. Cameron can fuck off as far as I'm concerned.
The point about Smith was not addressed to you, it was addressed to another old socialist. We are adrift, ergo had a quick aside with regard to where to go from here.
I am, unfortunately, well aware that times have changed. I'm also aware that there have been more financial crises under Tory tenures, than Labour, that Gorgeous George has borrowed more during this governments term than Labour did in the whole of the period for which it was last in power. I'm well aware that austerity measures are a complete nonsense and that growth has slowed considerably over the last couple of months. In other words, austerity isn't working and we're still trying to shoot the rapids without a paddle.

I'm not suggesting anything. I am stating a fact that, initially they did not use respite care. I did not say that they never did, or at what age Ivan was when they did or that it was in his last days. It was just that at first, they tried to do everything themselves but did use appropriate childcare when working which they are entitled to do if they can afford it. I do not judge them for being able to afford it.

They did it all themselves at night, weekends and holidays until respite was suggested as they were not coping.

You could argue more people use them because there are more of them and they're becoming more accessible and less stigma about using them. Using food banks as proof of poverty is silly

I have read some tripe on here but this tops it.

The Government should recognise that those who have been trafficked are the victims of human rights violations and potential witnesses to criminal investigations and prosecutions of the traffickers. Victims should not be subject to summary deportation or expulsion on the grounds of illegal or irregular entry into or residence in the country. Nor should they be prosecuted for any lack of identity documents or other minor offences which are directly attributable to their position as a victim of trafficking.

MG454. The Government should grant a temporary right to stay in the country to anyone who has been trafficked or appears to have been trafficked. It should also recognise the right of those who have been trafficked to apply for a longer term or permanent immigration status, and should treat such an application on the same basis as others seeking to migrate. Such an application should not be affected by the illegal nature of the trafficked person's original residence in the UK. Consideration of any criminal activities by a trafficked person should include consideration of whether they were performed under duress as a victim of trafficking.
Line I can't find anything stating that they support or wish to decriminalise those doing the trafficking, are you able to help?

I don't judge them for being able to afford it either, TiedUp. I wish everyone could afford it. I do judge Cameron for repeatedly claiming he understands what it's like for other families when he doesn't. I judge him most of all for making it worse for other families.

Dawndonna I'm on a kindle at the moment so can't link but will be back. There are a couple of discussions on here from a couple of months back. Further back in time there was a similar discussion about Amnesty International's seemingly retrograde stance, too.

I suppose it all hinges on the rejection of the Nordic model, following 'consultation' with the 'sex industry', and whether you believe that pimps and traffikers have influenced that consultation (I do), and what the ramifications of the resultant policy are.

The Government should recognise that those who have been trafficked are the victims of human rights violations and potential witnesses to criminal investigations and prosecutions of the traffickers

The Government and indeed the whole of the EU should realise what a disaster open borders has been for victims of trafficking. If borders were porus before it has now been handed to the people traffickers on a plate.

But no one is interested in any social side to the EU debate, its all about ££££.

yy TiredEmma

but at least when you tell a Labour man he's being a shitty sexist, they generally hold their hands up, even the unreconstructed ones

Really, would love to see evidence of this, thinking of Lord Janner right now

Thank you, Line. I shall go a hunting!

Saying that David Cameron used his son for political points scoring is a really warped way of thinking. He has as much right to talk about his experiences using the NHS as anyone else. He is a father, who lost his child, and has the same rights to freedom of speech to talk about that. But people will always be shitty because he doesn't align to their political ideology. Shabby. He came across very well last night and has grown in stature since he became PM.

I think the Prime Minister has a special responsibility to understand everyone's experiences of using the NHS, not just his own, and to not shut down debate about those other people's different experiences.

I am kind of torn but what puts me off labour is I'm nearly certain they would go in with the SNP. I know Miliband says otherwise but some of the other ministers have said they would.
I strongly suspect we'd end up with a SNP/labour coalition. And I can't think of much worse.

Dasiy has put it better than I could. As though having a severly disabled son is somehow not worse for him because he is wealthy and it doesnt really count.

I honestly think that people will vote for whoever they think will do Ok for THEM. The disabled will vote for the party offering more money and services, the elderly will vote for high savings rates and pension protection.

The single mother who was on This Morning saying she couldnt get any free childcare during school holidays when she got through to Nigel Farage. She was demanding to know what he would do about it....

We are increasingly looking to the state to assist us when we make poor decisions, when we lack edcuation, when we make poor choices in men. As thought somehow we have washed our hands of decisions we have made ourselves.

I'll wait for the usual people to say its not their fault, they need support, guidance, etc. That has been there over the years. It hasnt really made an awful lot of difference has it.

Hillingdon I don't think everyone votes based purely on what is the best deal for them and them alone.

Some people do have some sympathy for others, or remember what it was like during their own hard times and want to help others through those things too. Some people simply don't like to see other people suffer- for example seeing a lot of homeless people on the street, or getting ashamed that so many people have to rely on foodbanks, even if they don't rely on them themselves.

I think you are right to think that individual responsibility for actions is important- but so is being compassionate, supportive and thinking something along the lines of "there but for the grace of god go I". Sometimes people do make mistakes, but that doesn't mean they should be given no help to move past them.

Daisy it has nothing to do with anything other than people's experiences. I cannot go to work because I cannot afford to employ a nurse to cover the nights. It's nothing to do with my political beliefs, it's a fact of life. However, when I work an eighteen hour day, every day for a pittance, and my respite care is removed, my dh's nursing visits go from twice a week to once a fortnight and I have to fight for eighteen months to get a handrail on the stairs and then somebody who can employ nurses so that they get a decent nights sleep, removes access and then starts to say I'm going to tax the wee bit extra you get to make your life easier, but I know what it's like because my son was disabled, then you get angry. Nothing to do with politics, being shabby or anything else. Everything to do with using it to say that he knows what it's like, when he hasn't a fucking clue. Everything to do with saying he knows how hard it is when there's a nurse to change the dressings, to stop the pressure sores to hold down the fort when there's a traffic jam. It's the hardest thing in the world to lose a child, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, but equally, I wouldn't want it used to bang people over the head with, to get my own way and to destroy the lives of those who really do have it tough. Those who are living hand to mouth, not just through bad decisions, Hillingdon, but through illness and disability. For those who have spent their savings trying to sort things out, those for whom the insurance didn't pay out, and those who either by choice, accident or inability, couldn't save or insure against disability and illness because they were busy putting food on the table for their families.

I agree, Moustache. I know many people (DH included) who will be voting in a way that will make them considerably worse off if their party comes into power. The only reason I am not doing the same is that I am not convinced the outcome will be the one they think it will - not because I am looking after number one.

But I suspect Hillingdon is right in the majority of cases. Sadly.

So DC doesn't understand "ordinary" people. OK, true.
Does EM? Like heck the does.
Does NC? Ditto.

As for food banks - the stick that is being used to beat the Tories with….

According to the Trussel Trust, the first one was launched in 2000 (three years into a Labour government). The demand for its services was so large (under Labour) that they carried out research into the UK-wide need for foodbanks and discovered that short term hunger was a nationwide problem. The foodbank network was founded in 2004 (still under Labour).

Yes, they've grown - they have been growing year on year for the past decade and now especially as people can now be officially directed to them.

Whatever your political views it is disingenuous to pretend that the Tories are personally responsible for them.

The truth is they exist in six out of the seven continents under all shades of Government.

Not saying that the Tories are great - I hold no candle for them over any other party, but I am left wondering how come my disabled relative's benefits were doubled when the Tories came into power if they are so terrible?