...to expect courtesy from recruitment consultants?

[Caplanepourmoi]

(With apologies to any nice recruitment consultants reading this)

I'm a regular but I've name changed.

I'm looking for a job at the moment (just finished a fixed term contract). I'm a chartered accountant. I have 18 years' experience in a number of senior finance roles and I trained with a top firm.

I am having a sodding nightmare trying to find a job.

In my field, the roles are almost all handled by recruitment consultants. I've been intermittently looking for the past couple of years but I've stepped up my game a bit now that I'm not working.

I'm in the north of England, close to two of the biggest cities, and I've indicated that I'll accept up to £25k less than I was earning previously on the grounds that one sometimes has to speculate to accumulate.

If you are a recruitment consultant, or if you've dealt with them, can you rationalise this behaviour (listed below) please?

• I see a role advertised on a website. I call the recruitment consultant. Somebody takes a message, but I don't get a call back. I call again several days later, still no response. It's so rude.

• I see a role advertised, I send in my CV, I have to 'sell myself' over the phone to somebody who knows very little about finance and explain why I'd be the right fit for the role and I hear absolutely nothing.

• I see a role advertised, speak to somebody about it, and they tell me that it's already at interview stage and the client is seeing people that day, even though the closing date is at least a week off. This often happens a week or more after I first call the recruitment consultant and leave a message...why bother calling me back after a week to tell me that other people are already being interviewed but they'll send my cv in, and why bother with closing dates if the recruitment apparently works on a 'first come, first served' basis, which seems insane for senior finance jobs?

• I see a role advertised, talk to a recruitment consultant about it, and he or she promises to call me back before the end of the week to tell me whether they plan to submit my cv, after spending up to half an hour talking through my cv with me. They never call back. The last time this happened, I left it until the middle of the following week then swallowed my pride and called, only to find that the recruitment consultant had gone on holiday. I left a message, but I never heard back.

Yes, I know that recruitment consultants are sales people. Yes, as know that they work for the end client, not the candidates. However, is a little courtesy too much to ask?

Every time this happens to me I feel a little more disillusioned: nobody likes to be treated with contempt, or as if they aren't even worth a returned call or e-mail.

Any insights please?

Are you registered with agencies rather than just calling them when you see a job advertised?

The uselessness of recruitment consultants is one of life's mysteries.

I know a lot of people who work in IT, including my DP. When he was made redundant a few years ago, he had exactly this problem. He'd enquire about jobs for which he was perfectly suited and never hear anything back. Occasionally, though, they'd put him forward for a role for which he wasn't qualified.

And yet - if you talk to managers in IT, they'll say that there is a shortage of good candidates coming forward. It's as if recruitment consultants are completely incapable of matching the appropriate candidate with the appropriate employer.

I think on your first bullet point, the answer may be that the role doesn't exist, it's just there to hook you in. As for the others, though, it's mystifying.

I have worked as a recruitment for several years.

Often these ads will be run even though the consultant knows they are at second interview stage or even offer.

The ads are run to collect candidates with certain skills, not to fill specific vacancies.

However a good agency should ring back all applicants to discuss their situation. Unfortunately there are a lot of bad agencies out there who don't give a flying fig.

In my field, you quite often find that agents will advertise an old role or one that doesn't exist in order to harvest CVs. Others will give you a call about a role and it fairly quickly becomes apparent that they are simply on a fishing expedition to ask you who are the hirers and firers where you are currently. If you keep in mind that they are constantly trying to find clients and roles as well as candidates, it often explains behaviour that might otherwise seem a little odd or ill mannered.

Also, whilst you and I might find it rude that they don't even respond sometimes, put yourself in their shoes - the time they would spend replying to unsuccessful applicants would be pretty well non-productive, and wouldn't make them any money. Plus, nobody wants to have to give bad news and then explain why.

Eventually you'll get an opening, and once you're in you'll find a few agents that you can work with. Then you'll find they are on the phone to you before the role is even advertised. It just takes time - stick with it, and be thick skinned.

Thanks ladies. Yes, I am registered with the agencies.

Nice to hear that it's not just me, hackmum.

I am pretty shocked by the 'fake ad' thing, fulltothebrim! I resent having to deal with these stupid tricks.

That is rubbish, but I also have to say there are some pretty rubbish candidates out there too. They cancel interviews with an hours notice because they changed their mind - when work has been put in finding them and submitting then arranging interviews, not turning up to arranged interviews and never answering the phone again!

for those reasons alone, we still have new candidates ready to be submitted whilst the job is at interview.

Some companies interview on an ad hoc basis when they get an application, until they fill the role.

And having a snotty attitude about them asking questions will not help you. Yes you might know more about your field but they will know more about what the client wants so need to ensure that they submit the right ones.

They should always return calls and let you know what is going on, I do.

My dh works in it and they are constantly calling the house with jobs for him. I have to take it as a good sign as he's never been out of work and never had more than two weeks off as his skills are in high demand. But the same ones keep calling even though he's got a contract until September! I think they make 20-30k if they get dh a new contract so that's probably why they bother so much!

YANBU
My husband had a terrible time with recruitment agencies. They just want to collect CV's I think.
One agency wanted to interview him and bearing in mind his profession took a hammering in the recession and he had been out of work for months he was so pleased to get this interview. He bought a new suit especially and had arranged to meet at a well known coffee outlet.... bloke didn't turn up. Poor DH looked utterly ground down when he came home after waiting an hour and a half.
Some were rude and dismissive on the phone.... the whole experience was hideous. He is highly experienced and qualified in his field, and has won awards for his work, and one jumped up little gobshite basically tore his CV to shreds over the phone.

Ex recruiter here, now HR. I would say that good consultants are worth their weight in gold (I personally prefer smaller 'one man band' type agencies). Are you on LinkedIn in op? LinkedIn gives you should good insight into who the good recruiters are, and you may have more opportunity to find roles to apply for directly. And yes, a lot of them are arseholes.

Sorry there was an errant 'should' in my post

I have worked through recruitment agencies for most of my career, I'm probably not as senior as you but I've also worked for a headhunting firm so have seen the senior exec stuff from the other side. My advice would be to be a little lot pushy in the beginning, if I'm wanting to work with a new recruiter I ring to chase up my cv and any jobs/contracts I want to be put forward for and I always ask for the same consultant every time I ring. It helps me weed out which agencies aren't for me/useless and the recruiter is more likely to keep me in mind and I start getting calls about their new jobs coming in.

Personally, I think the scattergun approach to agencies doesn't help.

Choose an agency (the high street ones are often the worst) and maybe a specialist one and build a rapport with them.

Often jobs advertised are just there to pull in punters.

The uselessness of recruitment consultants is one of life's mysteries

indeed worse than estate agents. make money off your back.

i know one frm

Some of them are really awful,never returning calls,hiding behind standardised email responses.I told one agency to remove my details and they continued to email asking if I knew anyone to fill their roles!Try and build a bit of rapport with the relevant team at a few reputable agencies and hopefully they will start to work with you positively.

And when you don't want a job they won't stop bothering you about the dream opportunity they can't fill!

know one firm sends staff on really top notch lunches - as in top places in uk. which is lovely....for them. however i met a receptionist n her role for 10 years and nothng FROM THE agency. nothng, not even a bunch of flowers and yet she is there working hard and pullng in reglar wage. dsgtigngh.

keys buggerd

I had a really awful experience with a rec con a couple of years ago. they insisted in getting my CV in word form and then, mysteriously, my "CV" with key details changed - my name, my firm - etc was being sent to firms, other recruiters etc, by a researcher pretending to be me. I think they were fishing for jobs, but this person was having phone calls, emailing people, all while using my CV as theirs and essentially being me. SO unbelievable.

the only reason they were caught out is that I have unusual A Levels for my school and, as chance has it, an old school friend is a recruiter in the industry i work in. She rung me as soon as she was given "my" CV. it was so weird and creepy. just the worst behaviour.

I'm currently a recruitment consultant in for an industry littered with good, bad and ugly agencies. However, from my experience I would say...

I see a role advertised on a website. I call the recruitment consultant. Somebody takes a message, but I don't get a call back. I call again several days later, still no response. It's so rude. Remember that a we make money on placing a candidate so if you are contacted the likely hood is that you are not suitable for the role. I know that every says how rude it is not be contacted however, it personal takes me a significant portion of my day to contact the applicants I really want to speak to that I really don't have time to reply to the ones who are not up to scratch.

I see a role advertised, I send in my CV, I have to 'sell myself' over the phone to somebody who knows very little about finance and explain why I'd be the right fit for the role and I hear absolutely nothing I can't really comment too much on this as I was a senior professional in the field I recruit for. However, they will have a good understanding of what the client requires. Usually, there is much consulting involved in establishing what the client wants.

I see a role advertised, speak to somebody about it, and they tell me that it's already at interview stage and the client is seeing people that day, even though the closing date is at least a week off. This often happens a week or more after I first call the recruitment consultant and leave a message...why bother calling me back after a week to tell me that other people are already being interviewed but they'll send my cv in, and why bother with closing dates if the recruitment apparently works on a 'first come, first served' basis, which seems insane for senior finance jobs? Clients often change the goal posts. You may have not originally fulfilled the brief however, feedback about other candidates leads the Recruiter to realise the the client actually wants your skills. Closing dates on job adds have to be manually changed - if an admin person has posted they may overlook this.

I see a role advertised, talk to a recruitment consultant about it, and he or she promises to call me back before the end of the week to tell me whether they plan to submit my cv, after spending up to half an hour talking through my cv with me. They never call back. The last time this happened, I left it until the middle of the following week then swallowed my pride and called, only to find that the recruitment consultant had gone on holiday. I left a message, but I never heard back. Has this happened once or more. I know some consultants are bad at giving bad news, however, the consultant may have genuinely forgotten to call you. She may have also been inundated with candidates and wanted a bit of chase from you to see you were interested.

Yes, I know that recruitment consultants are sales people. Yes, as know that they work for the end client, not the candidates. However, is a little courtesy too much to ask? Even before I became a consultant I never found any agencies I used discourteous. If I didn't hear back from any I just assumed I wasn't qualified and moved on. I was actually placed by an agency I applied to 4 months after the initial application. I wasn't suitable for the initial role I'd applied for but was suitable for the one I got.

Yes I know there are some truly shite agencies out there. But on the flip of that we have to deal with candidates who don't show up, candidates applying direct behind our backs after we have told them about the role, candidates lying to us to get interviews, candidates who will say the agent has lied to them about the role....etc....etc.....

Excuse the typos.....I didn't proof read.....I promise I'm not the illiterate!

They are useless buggers, some of them.

I was registered with one a while back, which had several other branches in the surrounding towns. I'd been on their books for several months (full/part time, temp/permanent... I said I'd do anything in accounts/bookkeeping) and heard diddly squat, so rang them to find out what was going on. Spoke to a dimwitted someone who said that my 'agent' would ring me back, so while I was twiddling my thumbs waiting for the call I thought I'd go on their website.

Well... there were four jobs at their branch they hadn't told me about, and when they didn't ring me back, I called again and got the same dozy person a before.

So apparently, one had already gone, three were at the interview stage. I asked whether they'd put my cv in for consideration, and why hadn't they rung me about the positions, especially since one in particular was exactly what I had been looking for and was ideally qualified to do. She didn't know why. Thick as shit she was.

I then asked about jobs on the website available via their other branches and she said they would find out and let me know. I waited. Quite some time. Nothing.

I then got a job without their assistance, and about 6 months (6 months!!) later the agency rang me to ask if I was still interested in being on their books because they HADN'T HEARD FROM ME!!!!. Er - what??? Shouldn't that be the other way round? While she was on the phone I had a look at the website and lo and behold, several more jobs they should have told me about and hadn't.

Told them to take a running jump.

If they are so bad - well go and get a job yourself and they will soon be out of business

Thanks for the helpful comments.

In answer to some questions:

Yes, I'm on LinkedIn.

I can't 'go and get a job myself' because the jobs in my field almost exclusively go through recruitment consultants. The market is driven by the companies recruiting people via the consultants.

I don't 'have a snotty attitude about [recruitment consultants] asking questions'. I've merely observed, in my post, that many of the people I speak to demonstrably don't know much about finance.

I'm horrified by what happened to your DH, can'tbelievethisishappening.

Sounds like there are some sharp practices out there!

I agree with you OP, I hate them.

Don't get disheartened OP.

My current agent is a complete knob jockey and the most despicable, contemptible individual you could care to meet. But I've also worked with some excellent ones who I've managed to build decent relationships with.

I usually work on the basis that no news = no interest. The good agents will always call back to feed back but the others are mainly bloodsucking tosspots. Sadly it's a cut throat business so only the very decent are interested in harvesting a strong candidate base.

Best of luck though as it sounds like you've got a decent CV so should find something soon enough.

Quick namechange here.

OP, my DH is in the same profession as you with a similar career background to yours. He is also job hunting at the moment and would agree completely with everything you say about recruitment consultants.