...to expect courtesy from recruitment consultants?

[Caplanepourmoi]

(With apologies to any nice recruitment consultants reading this)

I'm a regular but I've name changed.

I'm looking for a job at the moment (just finished a fixed term contract). I'm a chartered accountant. I have 18 years' experience in a number of senior finance roles and I trained with a top firm.

I am having a sodding nightmare trying to find a job.

In my field, the roles are almost all handled by recruitment consultants. I've been intermittently looking for the past couple of years but I've stepped up my game a bit now that I'm not working.

I'm in the north of England, close to two of the biggest cities, and I've indicated that I'll accept up to £25k less than I was earning previously on the grounds that one sometimes has to speculate to accumulate.

If you are a recruitment consultant, or if you've dealt with them, can you rationalise this behaviour (listed below) please?

• I see a role advertised on a website. I call the recruitment consultant. Somebody takes a message, but I don't get a call back. I call again several days later, still no response. It's so rude.

• I see a role advertised, I send in my CV, I have to 'sell myself' over the phone to somebody who knows very little about finance and explain why I'd be the right fit for the role and I hear absolutely nothing.

• I see a role advertised, speak to somebody about it, and they tell me that it's already at interview stage and the client is seeing people that day, even though the closing date is at least a week off. This often happens a week or more after I first call the recruitment consultant and leave a message...why bother calling me back after a week to tell me that other people are already being interviewed but they'll send my cv in, and why bother with closing dates if the recruitment apparently works on a 'first come, first served' basis, which seems insane for senior finance jobs?

• I see a role advertised, talk to a recruitment consultant about it, and he or she promises to call me back before the end of the week to tell me whether they plan to submit my cv, after spending up to half an hour talking through my cv with me. They never call back. The last time this happened, I left it until the middle of the following week then swallowed my pride and called, only to find that the recruitment consultant had gone on holiday. I left a message, but I never heard back.

Yes, I know that recruitment consultants are sales people. Yes, as know that they work for the end client, not the candidates. However, is a little courtesy too much to ask?

Every time this happens to me I feel a little more disillusioned: nobody likes to be treated with contempt, or as if they aren't even worth a returned call or e-mail.

Any insights please?

Please also remember that companies use us (recruitment consultants) to effectively do the first level of interview. The so what have you been up to questions are a way of getting you to open up and talk. I can see your qualifications and experience on paper, I need to know how you communicate and interact. I will know exactly what my client is looking for and if you aren't it I won't put you forward for the role - I would be wasting your time and theirs. That is my job and that is why my clients pay me otherwise they might as well get a CV library subscription and do it themselves. However, I recruit for a customer facing industry so it may be different in office based industries.

The best thing to do is to ring your chosen local agency and say I'm looking for a job. The good ones will invite you in for a face to face to discuss. if they don't - run a mile.

The whole thing of sending CVs out without someones knowledge is unscrupulous. If anyone ever finds themselves in that situation ask the offending agency to provide proof of I.D of the candidate and proof of interaction. Also to command a fee you have to active factor in that candidate being placed - spamming a CV over to the company that gets ignored is not doing this.

YANBU. Recruitment consultants are, to the last one, a complete waste of space.

KidLorneRoll

Wow, that's rude! I love the fact that you make generalisations about an entire industry of people based upon the unregulated money grabbing ones.

Their is a Recruitment Agencys regulator body R.E.C. If you use agencies who are regulated you shouldn't be having the issues.

I'm a complete waste of space as I'm helping struggling business recruit staff, using my business connections that I have built up, at a massively reduced fee so that they can continue to stay open rather than having shut their doors and lose their livelihoods. Interesting perspective there.

**There

Recruitment agents are a bit like sports agents they make their money out of the top 1% who are rarely unemployed and never looking for a job.
What you are describing is a job filler entirely different animal and I'm not sure what they do to earn their fee but as an ex recruiter I avoid them like the plague. Contact HR directly.

Caplane

Think of the companies in the larger cities and surrounding you that you might want to work for - similar size, sector etc
Spend a few days calling their receptions to get the details of the FDs
Send your cv direct to the FD with a letter explaining your strengths

You will do well from this as you'll seem pro active and save them anywhere from £6000-£18,000 in fees to the recruiters

Recruitment consultants are paid basic salaries plus commission

They are busy focused and actually usually put up with a great deal from employers and potential employees alike.

Newbrummie

Recruitment agents are a bit like sports agents they make their money out of the top 1% who are rarely unemployed and never looking for a job. Isn't this more of a dedicated Headhunter.

What do is probably what you would call 'job filling then'.

For my fee:

I have to hunt out the 'active' candidates in the area to get them on the books then see where they would be suitable for, convince them to entertain the idea of that company when there are 50 other roles in the area they could apply for as well....and that's before I've even got the to the interview. But then my industry has a massive skills shortage with roles remaining unfilled for months on end and very high staff turnover.

If only it was as easy as 'filling' jobs I would be driving a very naice car and eating very naice restaurants. I'm defiantly in the wrong sector!

No you are in the right sector if you were in a candidate rich market the employers would fill the roles themselves.
The point I was trying to make badly on my phone whilst cooking diner is that recruitment consultants aren't an extension of the job centre, clients only pay for the exact match the square peg for the square hole, every box ticked. The honest truth is that that person is rarely sat at home applying for roles, they usually work for a competitor.

Take away the recruiters fee and the employer maybe more flexible in terms of their ideal candidate wish list.

Thanks for clarifying newbrummie. Perhaps I was quick to jump on you. Just seen a lot of rec con bashing recently by people who rarely understand the work that goes in to the job - or a well done one. My other half thinks I sit at a desk answering the phone all day and drinking coffee.

Its par for the course to be frank: their talent pool is 'candidate rich' as one of them put it. So how do you get round that is the real question?

Send v short one, max 2 line emails, shamelessly name drop if you worked at 'names'. Attach your CV, which they don't have time to read, They will ring IF you struck few chords with the email title/two lines max below. If they DO ring you, with questions, that is your big chance. Along with selling your skills, schmooze them, charm them and you stand out from the massive, massive pool who have the skills but not the ability to make an impression. Fortunately I have experienced sales people from way back so know what makes them tick, that they have short attention spans but react well to certain tactics. You need to get them on side then they will think of you first before calling anyone else.

Sorry you've had a rubbish time of it. I'm in the same profession and just moved job and had a great recruitment guy. I'd met him previously when he brought me candidates for my old firm so we already knew one another and he really worked hard for me. He went to firms I said I'd heard good things about and got me interviews where they hadn't been actively looking.

Based on that I'd recommend picking an agency you feel comfortable with and stick with them. I've heard that some places advertise roles that don't exist which is so frustrating but you quickly learn to spot them as the wording is always the exact same and very generic.

Good luck.

I've never dealt with recruitment consultants until recently. Got sent headhunting emails which I'd previously ignored. I responded to one recently because he seemed to know the industry and what he was talking about.

I looked him up and his credentials looked good (as did his company which seemed to specialise in my industry). Long story short, I did submit my cv, went for interview and got the job. He was v communicative throughout the whole process.

Good luck.

Some are good, some less so. I remember going for a job via a recruitment consultant. At that time I didn't have much experience of one of the skills they wanted. I remember asking the recruitment consultant several times "They do know I don't know much about x, don't they?" I was assured they knew. Got to the interview and the company had been told nothing of the sort! Embarrassing!
The recruitment consultant who I got my current job through was very good though. A positive is that it stops you having to actively look for a job. You just put your CV online and wait for the phone calls.

And when you don't want a job they won't stop bothering you about the dream opportunity they can't fill!

The advice about apply direct to the / a company and how much better it is because they save the fees etc, I'm afraid my experience, as the potential hirer - not candidate- is speculative applications would not be considered. Got so many of them, just not of interest. Would use consultants to do the groundwork / first interviews etc - not enough time to entertain ad hoc applications

Thanks everybody for your views. Some really insightful stuff.

Have you tried looking on UK Jobserve and getting your CV on there?
Are you limited in your location or would you take a contract abroad?
I do sympathise, though. I get mails and phone calls every week from recruitment consultants, who have just found my CV in their database. It used to annoy ne, but now I laugh and write a polite response to the people offering me permanent roles in Sinktown UK at a quarter of what I currently earn. Quite clearly they haven't read the CV T all.

I am a partner in a largish law firm and we like direct approaches as we hate paying consultants' fees. Applications need to be tailored to our firm though.

We also pay " bounty" to our staff if they introduce a successful candidate. Could you use your network to get someone to introduce you to a firm or company where they currently work?

Question: if a jobhunter uploads a CV to staffnurse.com and an employer spots it and recruits directly, can a headhunter working for the employer charge a fee simply for scraping the website and forwarding the CV?

The problem with the direct approach is how will OP find out about the vacancies? In my company they go to consultants and the only other place they are advertised is our website so you'd have to specifically look for it and know what you're looking for. RC don't give out enough info to identify the companies most of the time (obviously to prevent you doing this)

I have been in recruitment for nearly 20 years now and I get as frustrated as many of those posting here by bad practice in the industry. The use of jobs boards, LinkedIn etc has led to a huge rise in cowboy agencies who download cvs, copy and paste and hit send without speaking to the cv owners to qualify experience, what they are looking for etc. all to get the introduction. There has also been a rise in clients who will just accept the Cv via the first person who sends it, ignoring any explanation regarding what consultants in my company for example have done prior to sending the Cv or what the candidates personal choice is regarding who should represent them. Which unfortunately stems again from cowboy agencies threatening legal action and invoices being sent because they sent the CV first!

If you have been an FD you could register with the FD Centre

I'm an ACMA, and dealing with recruiters at the moment.

Make sure your CV shows achievements &experience clearly drawn out, and shows the transferable skills. And chase. Chase at every opportunity until you get them to meet you for a chat. Once you've done that, I find that they're much more interested in you, because they know what they're selling to their client.

I've had to call twice a day sometimes, to get a response. Recently spend 6 weeks chasing an agent who had submitted my CV, to find out the outcome. He called back pretty quick when I cc'd the MD of the agency, but I doubt he'll be putting me forward for anything else.

Thanks everybody. Feeling more positive now...when I first posted, I was feeling like I couldn't get arrested!