...to expect courtesy from recruitment consultants?

[Caplanepourmoi]

(With apologies to any nice recruitment consultants reading this)

I'm a regular but I've name changed.

I'm looking for a job at the moment (just finished a fixed term contract). I'm a chartered accountant. I have 18 years' experience in a number of senior finance roles and I trained with a top firm.

I am having a sodding nightmare trying to find a job.

In my field, the roles are almost all handled by recruitment consultants. I've been intermittently looking for the past couple of years but I've stepped up my game a bit now that I'm not working.

I'm in the north of England, close to two of the biggest cities, and I've indicated that I'll accept up to £25k less than I was earning previously on the grounds that one sometimes has to speculate to accumulate.

If you are a recruitment consultant, or if you've dealt with them, can you rationalise this behaviour (listed below) please?

• I see a role advertised on a website. I call the recruitment consultant. Somebody takes a message, but I don't get a call back. I call again several days later, still no response. It's so rude.

• I see a role advertised, I send in my CV, I have to 'sell myself' over the phone to somebody who knows very little about finance and explain why I'd be the right fit for the role and I hear absolutely nothing.

• I see a role advertised, speak to somebody about it, and they tell me that it's already at interview stage and the client is seeing people that day, even though the closing date is at least a week off. This often happens a week or more after I first call the recruitment consultant and leave a message...why bother calling me back after a week to tell me that other people are already being interviewed but they'll send my cv in, and why bother with closing dates if the recruitment apparently works on a 'first come, first served' basis, which seems insane for senior finance jobs?

• I see a role advertised, talk to a recruitment consultant about it, and he or she promises to call me back before the end of the week to tell me whether they plan to submit my cv, after spending up to half an hour talking through my cv with me. They never call back. The last time this happened, I left it until the middle of the following week then swallowed my pride and called, only to find that the recruitment consultant had gone on holiday. I left a message, but I never heard back.

Yes, I know that recruitment consultants are sales people. Yes, as know that they work for the end client, not the candidates. However, is a little courtesy too much to ask?

Every time this happens to me I feel a little more disillusioned: nobody likes to be treated with contempt, or as if they aren't even worth a returned call or e-mail.

Any insights please?

Crikey, you don't hear back from all the jobs you apply for?? How strange - nobody else gets that....

The thread is about courtesy, and the behaviour of a particular group of people. It's not about expecting a response to every single job application.

I'll reply tomorrow op when I'm more awake with my experiences so marking place... Over past few years have dealt with a few agencies. On the whole about all of the big boys are scum and smaller agencies are better! I've had an agency berate me for "not making the effort to travel in by train on first heavy snow day in over 20 years" (trains didn't run and 2nd day too packed and reduced service) as a temp. She was on tube line with better service. I was also not paid for those days and my colleagues were understanding...

Anyway marking place

Agree wholeheartedly, they ring up & spend ages trying to sell you a job they want to put you forward for and then you never hear from them again.

I have been for an interview before and not been called back by the agency.

Plus if your relevant experience isn't on the first page of your cv then they won't spot it and will not put you forward for some jobs yyou may well have got.

Agree with a pp that the local agencies are the best but you still have to build a rapport.

I am a contractor and work with a lot of recruitment consultants. I am a generalist and often compete with specialists for roles so I rely on recruitment consultants to go the extra mile for me and "sell" me over their other candidates.

I invest quite a lot of time in building relationships with at least one contact in each agency I work with. I have experienced agents who don't return phone calls or who dismissively tell me I'm not suitable for a role, but I usually find that this stops once the agency knows my name. I think it helps to let them know that you understand how they work (generally by making sure you know know whether they are competing with other agencies on a role or whether they have the role exclusively) and I also make sure I know whether my CV has ever been submitted to a particular company previously.

The one thing I hear constantly is that candidates treat recruitment agents dismissively like sales people but actually I find that they are the key to finding the right roles so investing time in the relationship seems worthwhile to me.

Best story I had was applying for job in another country, set up by recruitment consultant. They sent over job spec and I was told an interview had been arranged by Skype. I stayed up until midnight, in full suit attire and make up, and when the employer got on the call, the recruiter had gotten "confused" and it was for the wrong job (which I wasn't suitable for). To say I was furious was an understatement. Nob.

No, it's exactly that, just dressed up differently.

How kind of you to weigh in twice to give me the benefit of your not particularly helpful views.

Other posters: thanks for your input. Verbeier: what an infuriating experience.

ok here goes.

will give a recent history of my experiences with agencies. about 7-8 years ago I got a job through an agency. Great stuff had a job for 14 months then left. When I left I didn't think through travel arrangements for new job so tried to get another job but not easy as just hitting recession. I was extremely lucky to get back to back short and longer term assignments in central government for the next 2 years, all paying very well. I had a friend who was a recruitment consultant who helped me, had clients and was honest. Some of the other agencies literally couldn't care less… and at the end I was earning about 8GBP as switchboard operator for courts service in London.

I then got a perm job where I've been for almost 5 years. After a year I decided to use agencies to see what else was out there, had 2 interviews, didn't get them as not enough experience or what I was after but good interview practice. A year or 2 later I also had interviews through small one hand band agencies all of whom came to meet me before the interview. One place had an internal candidate who was the obvious choice (due to being insider) but it was me and her. The others various queries due to either wrong fit or not enough experience. But again I wasn't overly bothered. My field is specialist (legal secretary). Also these days it is a lot harder to get a job as more applicants for fewer roles.

Recently I was put forward for a job by an agency for a difficult company - I had 3 interviews (3rd was a half day test) and I was treated appallingly e.g. the man due to interview me had gone to a funeral when I got there, the man giving me work went into a meeting with no word of he was doing this, and the other women there were extremely unfriendly. I walked out.

2nd agency I was due to meet in Mayfair - I turned up for a potential job and the man due to meet me wasn't there, he was off sick… on ringing his office and speaking to a colleague my name wasn't in his diary!

I work and live in SW/SE London but its a trek getting to central London and also about 7-8GBP extra on oyster card not to mention taking time off work to see them.

I've met a consultant in a mini skirt who looked over my CV dismissively then said she just had a contract job - I emailed her boss as I was annoyed.

I also was put forward for jobs where I wasn't happy going for them Team Sec (not really agency fault or company's but could be clearer). The last time I complained to an agency who'd contacted me again about work I was given the 'brush off' by them.

The other week however I was offered a job. I got the interview through an ex agency worker who was working for a solicitors/accountants firm (new situation apparently) they'd seen my CV on linked in, put in my work postcode, had a brief 15 minute interview by phone, invited me after work for interview and offered me the job. They've also asked me to recommend solicitors working for them.

The thing these agencies don't get is I have a very long memory and will remember the rude/unhelpful ones and remember the smaller niche ones who are good. also in my new position I work in same dept as directors PAs (I am one) and near HR and I will not hesitate to tell them about agencies not to use should they ask. I also have a business idea for recruiting.

I've also noticed in past 6 months about 3-4 or more legal agencies springing up offering work but often they have same vacancies and are competing for work.

Yes I know some recruiters are sales people, I know they have targets, I know candidates often have rubbish CVs or don't turn up to agencies or for interviews but I am not one of these candidates.

anyway rant over - I'm sure I could be more concise, considered etc but on the whole the big agencies are rubbish.

So yes OP I feel your pain. In my experience I'd target companies HR depts themselves or use smaller agencies. Linked in can be useful if used well.

I myself hope the legal agencies who've sprung up will go bust soon…. as I certainly won't recommend either to my legal sec friends or other legal firms (and it's a very small legal world out there!).

PS - the Mayfair agency I was meeting the recruiter not going for interview but there was a job with interview and he rang me for that.

every agency has rung me generally I don't ring them.

i do follow up with some agencies re work but the vast majority I can't be bothered.

I'm sorry you view it as unhelpful. The fact is though that it seems you want unrealistic treatment. Truth is that across the board recruitment often involves people either not getting back to you, failing to accurately observe deadlines or process, and a host of other irritations. You are being unreasonable to expect otherwise simply because of your obviously extensive experience and decent earning potential. It sucks, but it's often the way for a wide range of folks.

I've had good and bad experiences over the last few months whilst looking for work.

Some are just plain rude, don't call you back, make promises they don't keep etc.

However, I have had some great experiences. 3 or 4 agencies who would call me every week with updates, sometimes everyday when I was going through the interview process. Lots of good feedback on my CV, feedback from interviews. These agencies really knew the role and type of person the company needed and also took a lot of time and made the effort to get to know me.

The good ones realised that for a number of the roles I went for, I would, in the near future, be recruiting my own team. They were clearly clued up enough to know that if they looked after me, I would consider using them for my own teams recruitment. The crap ones obviously didn't realise this and are on my black-list of agencies that I will never use.

It's all about relationship building and some are good and some are crap.

Talk about kicking the OP when she's down, UncleT. Still, you've shown us why you're doing it: she has the temerity to have "extensive experience and decent earning potential" and hence must be taken down a peg or two.

OP: stick with it. You'll find something and there's some good advice on this thread.

Crikey, Superfly, you've had some adventures with agencies!

I agree with you and Lucy that it's about relationships. I hope to find some consultants I can build one with!

p.s. Thanks Nettle.

Nope - that's not the intention at all, and there's no need to allege it just for describing the situation out there as it is. Accepting reality makes things like this rather easier to deal with. I don't see the benefit in labelling any kind of opposing view as some kind of attack, particularly when it's absolutely not.

Whilst I don't enjoy that other people have had bad experiences, in a weird way it makes me feel better! Thanks ladies.

In IT they are known as pimps and for a reason. They're like estate agents. yiybhave to learn to use them for your own gain and don't take it personally if they don't get back to you, they never do unless the client wants to interview you.

Perhaps you could back off, uncleT, and stop posting things that are bound to upset the OP, who is obviously having a difficult time? I'm sure that she's really enjoying hearing you tell her that she's unrealistic/deluded.

For those calling recruiters pimps I always suggest they spend 6 hours a day on the phone getting told to fuck off often literally to yourself a job, if it's that easy

well if they were a bit more courteous in their approach they wouldn't get called pimps. many are, and I personally will go out of the way to give them business if they don't try and BS me and can be arsed to send an email or make a quick call to give me some feedback.

Newbrummie - maybe if the agencies were less pimp like and more people orientated both the employers and employees would respect them more.

What I find more and more is agencies come across exactly like estate agents. I use them in my current office… I've been given this month:-

bottle champagne
luxury M&S choco cappuccino muffins
cup (pretty!) with chocolate eggs inside
jar with candied sweets inside

as well as mouse mats, pens etc…

I have to say this again - it's been only in the last 6 months have I seen more legal recruitment agencies spring up, they seem to have a limited knowledge of the market, tout the same jobs around and 'hunt' for new candidates/jobs…

Yes, they do employ graduates on the whole who know next to nothing but some are well meaning. The owners on the other hand generally don't give a shit as all they're concerned with is the huge placement fee they get.

forago - totally agree… wish they'd listen!

Newbrummie - bless - are you and UncleT two of the good guys then?!

I am a good consultant because if you're cv is shite and I can't work with you I tell you straight away ... No doubt I get called all sorts once the phone goes down but nobody can say I waste their time candidates or clients who live in cloud cuckoo land either

Your CV is shite. People are never shite their CV is often shite

new how comes I'm often told my cv is good?!

I've been offered 2 well paying roles but not doing what I wanted. So I turned them down. One was PA to private company but I'd have to be available on bb after hours.

Also I hate to break it to you but sadly you're little more than a salesperson.

If/when your area gets better trained and more people skills then you'll get more respect. Why did the woman who got me my job leave recruitment to train as an accountant?! Why did her new boss then ask and pay her to recruit me rather than an agency?! Because he and her were disillusioned. See....