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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Working mums get all the shit and end up with no career

437 replies

farewellfigure · 29/04/2015 12:27

Hi. I really don't know if I've just a bee in my bonnet or whether workplaces in general really are unfair and women get such a raw deal. It's all very emotional at the moment as our department has just announced that 2 out of 10 of us will be made redundant in the next month. I'm applying for an admin/assistant role in my DS's school and I really hope I get it. I'm actually really excited but I can't help pondering over the fact I will become the cliché of a career woman who has to give it all up.

Anyway, at work, there are 3 designers who are part time, and 2 part time writers. We are all mums who had careers... we were managers, department heads etc. Then we had babies and came back part time and weren't allowed to be managers any more. And how about the men we used to manage whose wives had babies? They are now managers, department heads etc. It drives me NUTS. In DS's school, there are so many mums who had careers, and are now dinner ladies, TAs, admin assistants etc, it's just not funny. Not that there is anything wrong with any of those jobs whatsoever. But it just seems so unfair to me. I know having children is a choice, and I chose to do it. And I chose to go back part time. Yes... all my choices because I actually wanted to see my DS a bit every day and have a relationship with him. But basically I waved good bye to my career and now it looks like I'll have to wave good bye to the job as well.

There are 2 young women in the office who will probably get to keep their jobs when the redundancies come because they are young and full time and 'fresh'. WIBU to say to them, 'When your time comes, and you choose to have babies, come back full time. Put your DCs in nursery all day every day and keep your management roles. Otherwise you can kiss good bye to your high-flying careers and do what all the other overlooked mums end up doing'. Bitter? Me? Just a wee bit. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and maybe a bit of perspective! And I'm giving myself a Biscuit. Is that allowed?

OP posts:
LotusLight · 06/05/2015 09:17

"On the subject of 'wifework' does anyone know how to outsource things like washing? Or cleaning that doesn't require you to tidy up first?"

We;ve not called it wife work in our family for generations as we are all feminists and men have always pulled their full weight. Husbands often find and keep and recruit cleaners and childcare by the way in many fair and equal marriages. These are not just women's issues and were not even so 30 years ago when I was first married.

So our system was to put the washer and dishwasher on first thing so that the cleaner (when we got to the stage of affording one) could empty it on her days as that putting away is harder work than stacking. Eventually we had a cleaner who did cleaning and washing and she still does - she puts away the washing and she puts on the sheets, towels etc so only int he summer when she's away do I wash towels or more importantly even think about them.

if you have someone at home looking after your toddlers they should tidy up by end of day (not that ours did but we could live with the mess as she stayed 10 years ultimately bringing her first and then second baby to work).

Cleaners are used to dealing with messy houses so don't worry about that. One of my daughters used an app to find her cleaner by the way

www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/10726285/Need-a-cleaner-Theres-an-app-for-that.html (Mopp).

howabout · 06/05/2015 10:20

Lotus you just made me chuckle, because you are quite right! My FIL had his own manservant before he married my MIL some 40 odd years ago. It is still a bone of contention between them that she preferred to keep her own house.

KERALA1 · 06/05/2015 10:41

Sourcing and recruiting cleaners is DH job. Much prefer an anonymous company would endorse that route using individuals means getting embroiled in their dramas we found.

Pre kids our rule was whoever was home first cooked dinner (i.e. dh), online shop do together, dh did laundry though I ironed as I quite like ironing with radio on, cleaner did everything else.

tinymummy300 · 06/05/2015 19:15

Kitten and littlesos you are both on my wavelength - I work straight thro lunch hour eating at desk, 2 hrs sorting out family before work and 3 to 6 hours after - so the remarks about part timers from those who chat for most of the day do get somewhat annoying. Also the lack of opportunities in science and technology, where projects are set up assuming full time employees, means the career development is rubbish. Women who are highly qualified in these areas get pushed into project management or out of the work place altogether.

By just about keeping up with technology and being prepared to be the lowest of the low team member, I have stayed in a technical job, but I would prefer this to handing children over to nanny as I really enjoy being with them and find parenting far more rewarding than the paid job.

I am not doing what I would have chosen to do in paid work, as being outside London 2 careers in the same house is unlikely. The life plan is to live in a pleasant place, earn enough to fund holidays and children and cleaner , don't live for work, life is too short!

kubbs · 08/05/2015 19:54

back here in preference to the election aftermath :-)

howabout - reread your post, in fact your last 2, before I got it! when I read your first one my sense of humour was on one of its periodic but temporary walkabouts...

lotus' response is actually spot on for me, I prefer my headspace to be used for stuff I find interesting which unfortunately does not include housework! I count myself lucky that I got good, non-gendered career advice both from school and parents, and as a result I got interested in something that pays OK too

regarding OP, I still think she is NBU since she's not asking whether she is entitled to be upset but whether she should advise younger women to be v careful about assuming they can go PT and still have the same career opportunities.

(n.b. I'm not advising her to walk up to the younger women in her office and ram it down their throats but you know, in some theoretical situation where it's appropriate to share)

2boys2girls · 08/05/2015 20:06

All mums should be sahm if they want to have a career don'thave cchildren .. Its that simple surely ?

2boys2girls · 08/05/2015 20:07

All mums should be sahm if they want to have a career don'thave cchildren .. Its that simple surely ?

Nolim · 08/05/2015 20:11

2boys2girls are you saying that working and being a parent are mutually exclusive?

Duckdeamon · 08/05/2015 20:13

Um, should men quit work when they become fathers then?

2boys2girls · 09/05/2015 05:44

Not saying men should give up at all,
Just saying there is no competition surely? Children come before a career etc so when you have children you give your career up and bea sahm , if this isn't the case don't have children

Nolim · 09/05/2015 07:09

Not saying men should give up at all,

You are saying thaw women should give it up, correct ?

Dont you think that your opinion is sexist 2boys2girls?

Duckdeamon · 09/05/2015 07:10
Confused
HazleNutt · 09/05/2015 07:18

why wait until having children? Isn't your husband more important than your career? Therefore all women should stop working when they get married. If you want a career, stay single.

Also, 1950s called and want their attitude back.

2boys2girls · 09/05/2015 07:40

Sexist?not I ,just think ideally a mother should be at home with their children but if they put careers before their children then of course the father should be the one, i also dont think a woman should give up work once married but yes when children come they should WANT to ?

LinesThatICouldntChange · 09/05/2015 07:48

If your user name is anything to go by, I feel sorry for your 2 daughters who are being raised with the belief that ideally they shouldn't want a career and children. And equally sorry for your 2 sons who are being raised with the belief that they ought to be sole earner if they become dads, because they won't be quite as good at caring for their own kids Hmm

2boys2girls · 09/05/2015 08:05

Realistically you can't have both you either have a career or have a child? Surely mothers want a child over a career ? My sons I hope Will yes choose a woman that will put her children first and if not they hopefully will be the stay at home dad, my daughters will enjoy a career until children come and again hopefully choose a husband who will support her or at least be the sahd if not I'm all for equal opportunities and share care , but ideally a mothers place is in the home ....

LinesThatICouldntChange · 09/05/2015 08:11

Erm ..hate to break it to you, but my children are more important fo me than my career. Same goes for DH.

HazleNutt · 09/05/2015 08:15

Of course you can have both a child and a career Confused. I'm having a lot of things in addition to children in my life.

2boys2girls · 09/05/2015 08:16

Don't hate to break it to me that's great news :-) that's how mothers should think,shame more don't

enjoyingscience · 09/05/2015 08:23

Who put you in charge of what mothers should think? What a bizarre thing to say.

2boys2girls · 09/05/2015 08:30

Really ? Wouldn't call it that at all? Find it bizarre that you think that but thankfully we don't all think the same .....

LinesThatICouldntChange · 09/05/2015 08:36

Of course you're entitled to think what you like. It's just bizarre that you can't admit that your beliefs are horribly sexist

SeraOfeliaFalfurrias · 09/05/2015 08:43

2boys2girls - what about women who are utterly miserable staying at home with their children? You say women should WANT to stay home, but very few actually do. Most do so out of financial necessity or because they feel that it's more important that they support their husband's career (the why of that has always baffled me), NOT because they feel any biological need to be near their children all day. Children are not possessions you need to keep close to you lest they turn out wrong. Children raised by parents who use childcare turn out pretty much exactly the same as children whose parents don't.

I pity the struggles your children will have later when they realise that the 1950s attitudes you have raised them with just don't work in the real world. Particularly your daughters, who you are raising to prioritise everyone else over themselves. Don't you think that their dreams and ambitions matter?

I also think you'll find that LinesThatICouldntChange wasn't actually agreeing with you, she was saying that as a working parent her children are just as important to her as yours are to you.

Nolim · 09/05/2015 08:44

i also dont think a woman should give up work once married but yes when children come they should WANT to ?

if you think this to be true about women but not men then you are sexist.

but thankfully we don't all think the same .....

Of all the things you have said this is the only one that makes sense.

2boys2girls · 09/05/2015 08:50

If the fact I believe a mother should put their children 1st is sexist then so be it ! I don'tthink i am as I'm a great believer in share care between parents,
Agreed these kind of threads cause nothing but trouble as you get strong opinions from both sides, so before the arguments and insults start I'll leave this post, because this is onlymy opinion and where as I'd love every mother to have that opinion when it comes to their children I know they don't....

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