Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Working mums get all the shit and end up with no career

437 replies

farewellfigure · 29/04/2015 12:27

Hi. I really don't know if I've just a bee in my bonnet or whether workplaces in general really are unfair and women get such a raw deal. It's all very emotional at the moment as our department has just announced that 2 out of 10 of us will be made redundant in the next month. I'm applying for an admin/assistant role in my DS's school and I really hope I get it. I'm actually really excited but I can't help pondering over the fact I will become the cliché of a career woman who has to give it all up.

Anyway, at work, there are 3 designers who are part time, and 2 part time writers. We are all mums who had careers... we were managers, department heads etc. Then we had babies and came back part time and weren't allowed to be managers any more. And how about the men we used to manage whose wives had babies? They are now managers, department heads etc. It drives me NUTS. In DS's school, there are so many mums who had careers, and are now dinner ladies, TAs, admin assistants etc, it's just not funny. Not that there is anything wrong with any of those jobs whatsoever. But it just seems so unfair to me. I know having children is a choice, and I chose to do it. And I chose to go back part time. Yes... all my choices because I actually wanted to see my DS a bit every day and have a relationship with him. But basically I waved good bye to my career and now it looks like I'll have to wave good bye to the job as well.

There are 2 young women in the office who will probably get to keep their jobs when the redundancies come because they are young and full time and 'fresh'. WIBU to say to them, 'When your time comes, and you choose to have babies, come back full time. Put your DCs in nursery all day every day and keep your management roles. Otherwise you can kiss good bye to your high-flying careers and do what all the other overlooked mums end up doing'. Bitter? Me? Just a wee bit. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts and maybe a bit of perspective! And I'm giving myself a Biscuit. Is that allowed?

OP posts:
rookiemere · 01/05/2015 13:52

I also think it's a good thing not to make sweeping generalisations about those who make different choices than you do.

Despite my silly little p/t job and sexist marriage, I do hope DH decides not to find a mistress and disappear off - so far his midlife crisis seems to have extended mostly to cutting out chips and buying an inappropriate sports car, you do never know.

At least I'll never be put in the position of having to pay him maintenance.

howabout · 01/05/2015 15:39

I agree that women not working was indeed a short post war middle class phenomenon. FWIW my granpa was a farm labourer and my grannie was employed as part of the package. They never had child care issues! My other gran was a 1930s educated women who gave up work for marriage and children only to be pleaded with to come back to teaching - as such she got a very good deal.
My Mum ended up working to bring me up as a single parent.
I was a highly paid professional and built up enough financial security to have choices when I had children. I also married well in the sense that DH earns enough and is an equal parent too committed to his trainset to wander.
I have 3 DDs. I would recommend doing what I did rather than choosing a "family friendly"" career. The comparison I draw is that if I had become a teacher it would have taken me over 20 years to take home the same amount as I did in 10 years working. This would be nearer 30 if I factored in maternity leave and any amount of part time hours.
My feeling is that "family friendly" is often used as a proxy for limiting ambition and for keeping women in particular in dead end jobs with promises of jam tomorrow. In my profession people step off the fast track by their fifties and I do not think this is uncommon. This means treading water while DC are in small is pointless. If I had DC in my 20s rather than 30s then I would definitely have kept working FT but on balance I think delaying motherhood worked better for me.
Obviously if I had DS I would advise him to marry someone just like his mother!

lustylover2 · 01/05/2015 15:43

OP - So you want to be a manager working part-time over someone who works there full-time? Good Luck with finding an employer who wants to grant that.
What did you expect to happen after you took time off to have children?

Want2bSupermum · 01/05/2015 16:19

There are plenty of positives today compared to yesteryear. The issues are rather apparent to me. Namely, we have a huge problem with men being passive aggressive towards women. Its not just my DH but I hear and see plenty of cases of men sabotaging the women around them. Also, we have technology available to us today that is unprecedented. It is sad that more of us can't work remotely as needed so we can work with more flexibility. Part of the reason this doesn't happen is because men are in management positions and suits them to say a manager can't be part time. Its a pile of codswallop and we all know you can be a manager of a part time basis in 99% of positions.

As a mother to DS I am already aware that he needs to be raised to be an equal to his future partner. Chores are split in our home based on age not on sex. DS is required to complete the same chores as DD. This isn't going to change. I also force DH into completing chores. We have a chore chart and we all get stickers. If you have 10 stickers in a week we get ice cream. There have been weeks where DH is the only one to not get ice cream.

howabout · 01/05/2015 16:33

I am so adopting the sticker chart! My DH would do everybody's chores if ice cream was involved. I on the other hand can take it or leave it.

slightlyeggstained · 01/05/2015 17:10

Oh do read the fucking thread, lustylover. More than a few part-time managers of full time people have already posted. Yes it's possible. Yes it works. Yawn.

slightlyeggstained · 01/05/2015 17:12

When DS is a little older I might try the sticker chart Want2Bsupermum.

Except then I might not get icecream.

Meechimoo · 01/05/2015 17:32

Full time high flyers of both genders don't sell the leaning in philosophy to me.
On mumsnet, in real life and on my facebook friends list, they mostly sound burnt out, depressed, frequently ill, stressed and disillusioned. Having juggled young kids and a fulltime job in the past, husband and I were both ready to lean the fuck out.

rookiemere · 01/05/2015 17:42

I agree with you meechimoo. There are only so many hours in every day, however much you cut it.

Some of the regular posters here seem to thrive on the 24/7 buzz of being available to work, I don't. I know from my time of being relatively high powered and having a DS, it didn't work for me. Perhaps it was because I wasn't trying hard enough and didn't earn enough to have a nanny or housekeeper or any of the things that make it feasible.

I find it interesting that some people seem to lack the understanding that not everyone is the same. I think it's great that there are working parents out there that thrive on 12-14 hr work days and don't suffer any guilt about having childcare. Good for them, equally I think it's great that some women enjoy being SAHMs - wouldn't be for me, but it's totally their choice.

Someone I used to work with is in hospital now with a brain tumor in her 50s. Life can be shorter than we want it to be, so I feel that whilst it's important to balance the books so you can afford retirement, it's also good to be able to enjoy the here and now.

rookiemere · 01/05/2015 17:43

If I hear anyone say lean in, I immediately visualize myself leaning out horizontally, preferably on a large bed having a snooze.

LotusLight · 01/05/2015 18:02

No, it's absolutely marvellous so many mean and women want to lean out - it makes it so much easier for those of us who like to lean in and leave house cleaning and nappies to people more devoted to that kind of activity, to soar and earn a lot. The more women and men who lean out, don't work many hours and get left behind on pay the better for those of us who lean in. It makes life easier. If everyone were leaving in there'd be more competition and less money for the leaning inners.

Meechimoo · 01/05/2015 18:05

Lotus, you sound so happy and fulfilled by life, you carry right on Grin

Jackieharris · 01/05/2015 18:11

Yeah, but lotus you ended up divorced didn't you?

Why omit that detail?

merrymouse · 01/05/2015 18:11

I don't understand the problem of having a part time manager. I have never had a manager who worked part-time, but I have certainly never been 'managed' full time either. What's the point of an employee who has to be managed all the time? Isn't your boss supposed to be getting on with something else?

Newbrummie · 01/05/2015 19:12

A part time or job share manager should work as well as a part time teacher, that's relatively successful isn't it

tobysmum77 · 01/05/2015 19:17

My manager lives 200 miles from me. We get on great Grin .

LinesThatICouldntChange · 01/05/2015 19:32

I don't think anyone is saying we should all be high fliers. Clearly people come in all varieties and some people are happy not working, some are happy doing a regular 'job' Rather than career, some are career oriented.

But let's go back to the actual OP... She is fed up and resentful and doesn't want what she perceives to be a menial job. Many of us have responded to explain that actually no, life doesn't need to be like that...we've managed to work our way up in our careers as mums, and haven't allowed ourselves to end up
Changing all the nappies and doing all the crap stuff

howabout · 01/05/2015 19:39

Leaning the fuck out is definitely where it is at. DH planning to join me in the next couple of years. Just as well we are just about past the possibility of creating another 2 year nappy changing scenario lol

rookiemere · 01/05/2015 19:56

Au contraire lines there appears to be one poster who is pretty much stating outright that the only credible choice is to work uber hard, outsource your childcare and earn squoodles of money. If you don't then you're clearly the village idiot and you deserve to have your DH leave and die lonely and probably fat, in penury.

Fromparistoberlin73 · 01/05/2015 20:21

Lean in ? Fuck that . I work ft and am a middle manager. Someone told me about lean in and frankly like others I want to lean back. All that senior management stress, board arse kicking and choosing who to make redundant , weekend travel, 3 am conference calls . Not sure if that's worth another £1500 per month

Ubik1 · 01/05/2015 20:26

I worked nightsh

Ubik1 · 01/05/2015 20:34

Sorry

Nightshifts and weekends in a call centre after I had my three children. It was repetitive, stressful, exhausting 9 and 10 hour shifts with constant calls.
Many, many mothers were there. I worked with people studying for PhDs, qualified and experienced in admin, HR, speech and language therapy. One woman would leave her shift at 2am and get her baby from her mothers house in the middle of the night, and drive home.

These women could not afford childcare so would work around their children.

I'm in a good job now with prospects and I am delighted with 9-5. No nightshifts. No finishing at 2am and up at 7am with the kids.

I suppose what I am saying is that really what is a terrible job/terrible hours actually depends on your experience.

Fromparistoberlin73 · 01/05/2015 20:39

Good for you ubik

Needless to say I suspect most people with ok and well paid jobs have grafted pretty hard to get to where they are .

It's an investment for sure

Only 25 years till retirement Sad

machair · 01/05/2015 22:03

I don't know of anyone who, on their deathbed, wished they'd spent more time at work.

Fromparistoberlin73 · 01/05/2015 22:05

Exactly . And yet .... What do we do especially in the north of Europe ? Work . Constantly . Then talk about work - if we not too tired Grin