i would fricken BAN smoking at tables outside eating establishments

[ElizabethHoover]

Its just GOPPING.
Its like a nicotine based apartheid ( slight overstatement) where the TINY percentage of smokers (a sixth of the population) in the country force the rest of us inside to get away from their stench and litter.

GRR

Smoking areas outside establishments now spoil a nice coffee/meal sitting in the sun.

So annoying.

people moaning about smoking are spoiling a nice coffee/meal sitting in the sun, and are more annoying than the smokers.

Ah, but they don't complain.

They sit there & seethe and then go home and log onto a forum to complain.

So actually - the smokers still get to enjoy their fag in peace while the non-smokers will all go down with ulcers at some stage & cost the NHS a fortune.....

Not as much as cancer/heart related illness costs the NHS

I hate anyone smoking around me when I'm eating, regardless of whether it's inside or outside. I know one is legal and the other isn't, but they're both inconsiderate.

Catch up bore offHorsemad it's already been established many times on all these repetitive boring whiney anti smoking threads that the cost of smoking related illnesses to the NHS is still far less than the revenue from tobacco. The public purse is better off because of smoking actually.

Touchy Stinkersmum?
I am as entitled to moan about smokers spoiling my enjoyment of al fresco eating as you are to whinge about non smokers complaining about smokers.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it!

KoalaDownUnder it's banned in Brazil too, awesome isn't it? There's more sunshine, and less smokers though. Unfortunately as these threads demonstrate, it will probably be years before the UK catches up.

Banned in other countries is good. At least all the meepers have options available to them. I'm sure you'll be missed etc

The perfect MN pub garden would have an area for smokers at the front of the premises, another separate area for small shrieking children and their oblivious parents, another for women wearing dresses from Joe Brown or White Stuff with leggings and yet another for staffs and their owners.

I kind of agree but I have no idea where I would sit being an ex smoking, Joe Brown dress wearing Staffie owner

it will probably be years before the UK catches up.

Yes, they've got their priorities right in Brazil! Look at the murder rate, drug use, prostitution, cruelty & torture records!!

You're more than welcome to move out there!! Leave the smokers to keep on puffing in civilised old Blighty...

I noticed this morning that all the outside tables in my local Pret have no smoking signs on them - this is definately a very recent development

The signs will probably be moved to a singe table or they wont last long.

IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou and despite all that I still like living here better

I can't find any reference to an outdoor ban in Brazil, just enclosed public spaces - same as here. Has anybody got a link?

Yes can there be a separate area for people with tattoos, obese people, Tories, loud people, drunk people, men with their tops off, men with beards, people with pitbulls, people with whiny kids, ugly people, women with fake tans, hair extensions and false eyelashes please?

Alternatively, live and let live.

Peace and love all.

I'd actually like a separate (sound proofed) area for those who cackle and hoot when they laugh'. I find it terribly distracting and unpleasant to the ear.

PlentyOfPubeGardens like Australia it varies state to state. In some states it is banned in all common areas. There can be no designated smoking areas either (which outside seating would be classed as). Restuarants in Brazil ALL have outside seating and most people sit outside, I know many restuarants in my small town that don't even have inside seating. So by default, banning smoking in Brazilian restuarants means banning smoking in outside seating.

I know more than a dozen smokers in my UK family and friends. I know 1 in Brazil. I found smoking in America, Brazil and Australia is far less common than in Europe, so it's far easier to implement these smoking bans.

I don't smoke Horsemad I'm just not judgey or hypocritical about what people are perfectly legally entitled to do. There are far more dangerous pollutants than cigarette smoke blowing around outside to worry about. At worst it's an offensive smell and I've smelled worse things in public..... If anyone here happily pushes there LO along in the pushchair along a busy high street, that's far worse than a bit of ciggy smoke floating past. Think on and stop whinging. Or decide where the extra tax is going to come from and lobby for smoking to be totally illegal.

I'd LOVE for smoking to be totally illegal Stinkersmum, nothing would please me more.
It is a totally unsavoury habit and even though people are legitimately smoking in public spaces, I do not have to agree with it.

Stinkersmum, you're mistaken about the statistics on the contribution of smoking taxes to the economy. Yes, it contributes more than smokers cost the NHS. However, the overall cost of smokers to the economy outweighs their tax contribution when you factor in things like the loss of tax revenues when smokers cannot work, their benefit bill, damage to productivity from smoking breaks and smoking-related sick leave, cost of fire damage, etc etc.

And the argument about traffic pollution is a classic evasive "Look over there" argument which actually answers nothing.

Maybe Icimoi, but you've missed out the fact that anyone dying young saves the country loads.

“I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth.”
? Bill Hicks

Gosh that's a fucking rude way to shut down debate. Bill Hicks sounds a twat.

Those 'total cost of smoking to society' reports are masterpieces of statistical creativity They always come in at just a bit over the current tax take for tobacco and coincide with calls for further tax rises.

Looking at the figures from the ASH factsheet, the social care figures come from here - I haven't analysed it in detail but I have read enough to see that it doesn't adjust for the very strong correlation between smoking and mental ill-health or the very strong correlation between smoking and low socioeconomic status, both of which have a huge effect on general health and the likelihood of needing social care. Smoking is part of the reason why but there are many other factors.

The rest of the figures in the ASH factsheet are just made up hooey (I'll allow them the cost of fires). The loss of productivity, cost of fag breaks etc. can be traced back to this Policy Exchange report which has been entertainingly demolished here.

Highlights include:

• assuming nobody except smokers take breaks at work
• assuming people work 'til the age of 74
• assuming 'loss of productivity' when smokers die is a societal cost when the vast bulk of it is loss of earnings to the individual smoker
• assuming smokers haven't already paid for litter picking through their council tax

There is no mention of the pension and elder care savings from around half of all smokers dying a decade early (approx 10% of the entire population) and again, no adjusting for the correlations of smoking with mental ill health and with low socioeconomic status.

Gosh that's a fucking rude way to shut down debate.

It's not a debate though is it?