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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Good manners start with saying grace before lunch.

93 replies

MisForMumNotMaid · 24/04/2015 19:06

So todays newsletter from school informs me.

If children don't fulfill this criteria they can not sit at the top table during lunch and be part of the schools behavioual reward system.

DS2 (yr 5) attends the school we could get a place at when we moved to the area begining of yr4 its C of E.

The letter is encouraging parents to teach their children manners. DS has received several awards at this school for manners. Two through the after school sports club, one through the school awards system and was given a certificate in the family assembly.

I have no intention of saying grace or attending church so that he can meet this latest criteria on having manners.

Its the first time i've felt very conflicted about the religious element in the school.

AIBU to be annoyed about this in my only option for within 3 miles state education or is it okay for religious schools to be religion biased and I just need to accept its part of the deal?

OP posts:
IAmAShitHotLawyer · 24/04/2015 19:10

Why don't you just say that you do say Grace before lunch?

ThatBloodyWoman · 24/04/2015 19:11

I would challenge it if my dc's didn't want to do it,but not do anything if they did.Have you asked your ds if he minds?
My dc's are at a school with a religious aspect purely because its their catchment school.
Yabu and yanbu.

Jackie0 · 24/04/2015 19:12

I suppose as a C of E school they can do this.
Do you have to be C of E to actually attend the school? I'm just thinking if the children were multi faith and no faith then this would be very problematic.
It would kill me to teach a child to do this but then no child of mine would go to a faith school, which is easy for me to say, I assume you didn't really have any options.

expatinscotland · 24/04/2015 19:13

If it's a church school, then well, isn't religion part of it?

00100001 · 24/04/2015 19:15

Its part of the deal, get over it.

ThatBloodyWoman · 24/04/2015 19:15

Oh -are they saying you need to say grace at home?
No way,I'd not be dictated to like that!

42andGaffaTape · 24/04/2015 19:15

Rub a dub dub, thanks for the grub. (To the cook)

Sorted Grin

Annunziata · 24/04/2015 19:16

We just shout GRACE in our family Blush

But there is nothing wrong in saying thank you for food.

MissDuke · 24/04/2015 19:18

Ours isn't a church school, but grace before lunch seems to be dependent on the teacher - some make them, and some don't. I feel it should be school policy and not for an individual teacher to decide. We never say grace at home.

Hakluyt · 24/04/2015 19:18

It is completly outrageous that religion plays such a part in state education.

And imposing a requirement like this on children is discriminatory. Write to the Head saying so.

GoblinLittleOwl · 24/04/2015 19:19

is it okay for religious schools to be religion biased ?
Yes, Yes, Yes; that is what they are all about.
You can withdraw your children from the school on religious grounds, and find a place at a non-denominational school; if you choose to keep them there, you abide by their ethos and beliefs.
Your choice.

PerspicaciaTick · 24/04/2015 19:19

How about teaching him a secular grace such as
"For what we are about to receive
let us be truly thankful
to those who prepared it and those who served it."

or even the old-fashioned
"For what we are about to receive may we all be truly grateful."

Teach him to sit quietly and respectfully while other people are saying grace, even if they are using a religious grace. I believe that it is possible to be respectful of other people's prayers without agreeing with their faith.

southeastastra · 24/04/2015 19:20

i used to thank my mum that was about it. thank grace, who's she then?

MrTumblesBavarianFanbase · 24/04/2015 19:21

Whoever wrote the newsletter is mixing up religious observance with manners - surely they are not the same thing at all. It would be good manners to thank the cook - if you don't believe in a diety it's hollow etiquette to thank one not manners, and if nobody in the room believes in a diety it's pure parody to "say grace".

YANBU

AbbeyRoadCrossing · 24/04/2015 19:22

Where I grew up and where I live now there are no non-religious schools, if you're in the same situation it's tricky as you can't really opt out of it.

Jackie0 · 24/04/2015 19:23

I would agree Hakluyt but if families have to actually be Christian and specifically C of E to join the school then it would be expected that they would be schooled in that churches way of worship.
That's why I'm curious if anyone can go to the school from any or no faith. If so then they are being discriminated against.

HSMMaCM · 24/04/2015 19:24

It's good manners to say thank you for the food. Have they specified who you have to thank?

SuperMumTum · 24/04/2015 19:24

I think its appalling that any state school is allowed to impose any religious activity on children. I would not be happy with this.

Original poster
MisForMumNotMaid · 24/04/2015 19:25

They are asking us to do this at home to set an example. The school is not our nearest. Its 1.5 miles away. The nearest and next nearest are also C of E. I've three DC at three settings - its not easy.

DS2 is a willing to please child. We've discussed what grace is. I don't object if he wants to join in. I object to doing it at home to set an example, because i believe that manners start at a more basic level. I will teach him thank you for the food prepared for us or similar to fit in.

DS1 is Autistic and we moved to get him the specialist education he needs unfortunately its made things difficult for DS2 and DD in an over subscribed area.

What i'm not sure is if it really is a suck it up situation or if there are some limits on discrmination with less religious pupils within a C of E school?

OP posts:
RitaCrudgington · 24/04/2015 19:25

I'd push back on this one. It's a state funded school, to which you have been allocated by the local authority. It would be grossly unreasonable to make a major part of the school reward programme conditional on actual participation in Christian worship.

Unless your DS actually wants to say grace exactly like the others then I'd be saying to the school "DS will be fufilling this requirement to demonstrate gratutude/good manners by either a) bowing his head silently while the others pray b) saying "I am grateful for my nutritious food" (or whatever). Which would you prefer?"

AnaisB · 24/04/2015 19:26

YANBU as you didn't choose a church school school. Its frustrating when religion is forced on children through the education system.

MrTumblesBavarianFanbase · 24/04/2015 19:26
  • assuming you are talking about at home - at school I would advise a DC to just sit quietly if they don't believe - obviously it's the child's choice but the school can go through the motions; you can't object to them doing it at school as its a church school but they can't demand any child says the words against their personal conviction.

They abu if they are trying to insist that it's poor manners not to say grace at home.

Hakluyt · 24/04/2015 19:26

A church school is allowed to discriminate in strictly prescribed ways for admissions.

It is not allowed to discriminate against non Christian children once thy are in the school. And having a rewards system that only Christian children can access is discrimination.

doubleshotespresso · 24/04/2015 19:27

"Bless this bunch whilst we munch our lunch" -that covers it surely?

Seriously though, this is a church school, think you maybe just have to grit your teeth through this one...

HowDoesThatWork · 24/04/2015 19:27

That is completely unreasonable.

Religious observance has nothing to do with manners.

Such a connection implies that folk who do not say grace because they follow a different, or no, religion do not have good manners.