Good manners start with saying grace before lunch.

[MisForMumNotMaid]

So todays newsletter from school informs me.

If children don't fulfill this criteria they can not sit at the top table during lunch and be part of the schools behavioual reward system.

DS2 (yr 5) attends the school we could get a place at when we moved to the area begining of yr4 its C of E.

The letter is encouraging parents to teach their children manners. DS has received several awards at this school for manners. Two through the after school sports club, one through the school awards system and was given a certificate in the family assembly.

I have no intention of saying grace or attending church so that he can meet this latest criteria on having manners.

Its the first time i've felt very conflicted about the religious element in the school.

AIBU to be annoyed about this in my only option for within 3 miles state education or is it okay for religious schools to be religion biased and I just need to accept its part of the deal?

It's good manners to respect other people when they are taking part in religious observance.

That's good manners. My Grandma was very religious and the Catholic side of my family always said Grace. I kept a respectful silence.

It's good manners not to impose your religion on non believers. Don't make them pray if they don't believe. Don't tell them what to think. Tell them what you think but don't say this is the right way to think or else you'll burn in hell.

They can say whatever they like. However, they have a statutory obligation to allow parents to opt their children out of any religious practice. Saying that if they opt out they will not be able to take part in the whole school behaviour reward scheme is discriminatory.

I didn't say it wasn't unfair? Just said not surprising.

A grace before eating is not strictly a christian observation, and it is part of many countries and cultures good manners, including most British. If the child when invited to say a grace chose a secular (or non-christian) one and was not given the same rewards and benefits as a christian one would the discrimination be there. We've not had any evidence of that, although I don't really understand how it works, normally only one person says the grace, so I'm confused by the exact set up.

Obviously there's no reason to say a grace at home, just explain to the kids if they want to they can do one at school, and teach them some appropriate ones. Various secular ones have been given.

As much as I'd like to bash the religious aspect here, there isn't a definitive religious aspect to grace.

I have never eaten with a family who said grace before a meal. Ever. I haven't witnessed anyone do it since I was at school myself, in fact.

So it can't be that widely considered to be good manners.

Good manners is thanking the person who cooked / provided the meal surely?

My kids often thank me when I feed them, that feels like quite a result from a manners POV to me.

I should ask DD if they say grace at school (it is CofE and quite religious).

Rub a dub dub, thanks for the grub.

Job done

Honestly don't understand why people get so bunched up about a bit of half-hearted ritual.

I went to a Steiner school, and the grace we said before meals was

Earth who gives to us this food
Sun that makes it ripe and good
Dear Sun, dear Earth, by you we live
To you our loving thanks we give.

Why not try that, if you don't want a God flavoured grace?

Why should the OP have to start saying things before she eats food?

"As much as I'd like to bash the religious aspect here, there isn't a definitive religious aspect to grace"

I would be very surprised indeed if the grace said at the "top table" at lunch at the school is not a Christian one. Indeed, why would it not be? It is a faith school.

We thank genetic engineering for helping make the crops grow
The scientists who developed pesticides.
The farmers who bred these animals
And evolution

I really feel for you op - I had enough of the religious shit forced on my dcs through normal state schooling, it's really past time religious organisations stopped having any influence over state education, it's just wrong.

OrlandoWoolf I'd love to be a fly on the wall if DS said that. That made me lol.

Hakluyt but normally in a christian grace, the host, or the highest ranked person at the dinner - head teacher presumably, would say the grace, the rest of the diners would be silent, non participation in grace would be making noise / eating before etc.

A communal amen is of course possible, and if the child is penalised for that then as you say it would be discriminatory. But I can't reconcile that with the "saying grace" part of the reward system, it sounds more like a child is offered the opportunity to sit at the table and actually say the grace.

We don't know enough information to say for certain that this practice is wrong.

Orlando, ds , who has been an atheist since he was old enough to to know what one was, told me that when he made his Cub Promise he said God but thought Darwin...........

I'm sure I heard someone say they have to say the Cub promise but it doesn't matter if they don't believe on God. Which is sort of encouraging lying.

DS has made the Cub promise. But he doesn't believe in God. It's a tick the box to get in promise.

It depends on a few things though. Firstly, as others have said, there is nothing wrong in saying thank you for food before eating, provided you are allow to choose your own wording.

However....

Grace is not a part of Christianity. It's basically a nicety that people started doing. It's not the bloody communion. I think if this really bothered you, you would be well within your rights to speak to the Head and express your concerns that this is NOT a part of C of E, or in fact, a part of any religion. Therefore, you have concerns that your child is basically being forced to partake in something completely unnecessary (if the wording is forced to be religious)

I thought the cub promise was very good about religious things, with variations for faiths and non-faiths, it was the republican Brit's who have a problem, as you can't take the queen out unless you're not a Brit?