To think parents need to actually understand the school's application process before applying?

[evertonmint]

So we've just received school places. I've had 2 going through the system this year and live edge of catchment so it's been stressful. We were lucky to get what we wanted, as most people around here did fortunately, but I also made damn sure I understood the process, and understood what to do if we didn't get our choice, so that my application was as solid as it could be.

I feel incredibly sorry for people who haven't got any of their choices, who live in crap areas with huge competition. We could well have missed out but just managed to scrape in.

But I've been shocked at how clueless people are about the process, or deliberately disingenuous they are about the reasons why they've not got what they wanted. For example,

1. somebody complaining on a local Facebook group that the council's letter says they live 5 miles from the school when she can see the gates from her house. Loads of "that's terrible!" comments. She then later drops into conversation that she only moved to the village 2 weeks ago!

2. someone who didn't tick the sibling link box as she didn't know there was one so has been treated as catchment only and not got a place for her second child

3. people who think the process is unfair because the school isn't near affordable housing so it's unfair on poorer people (even though this is not actually true - housing is very mixed here)

4. several people who spent ages stressing that they wouldn't have a place even though they have a sibling there and are closer than most people in the school catchment so were virtually guaranteed a spot

5. person putting home schooling as second and only other choice to force the school to take their child. Child doesn't get a place, no place offered as parent expressed wish to home school. Parent now upset they have to home school and talking to their MP about it...

I've heard all sorts recently, and I'm just shocked that so many people don't appear to have read the criteria, or rely on what their auntie did 15 years ago, or are deliberately holding back a critical bit of info when trying to garner sympathy.

I have loads of sympathy for the children affected by this, but their parents in some cases have brought this on themselves and I just don't understand how you can be that lax when your child's schooling is at stake. This is not an education thing - several of the people mentioned here have degrees for example, several of the people who did it all right don't. AIBU, cynical, unfair? Or do I have a point?

I did have a chuckle when on the (public) consultation for our infants expansion there was a comment from an assistant head complaining that the expensive house they'd purchased wasn't close enough last year and how it came as quite a surprise.

Yes ours show how many were admitted under each criteria, and what the cut off (criteria and distance). Useful info. It meant I measured our distance myself so I knew how par I was to being bottom (answer - very, possibly last to get in!)

Completely agree. Each year on our local Facebook group there are people make moaning as they didn't understand the system and thought they had to get one of their choices. You should always put one that you have a decent chance of getting into! People think they can appeal because they don't like the school.

I don't think the older generation help. DM and MIL have asked if I've put the DSs' names down for certain schools, or if helping out at the school would guarantee a place. Things have changed a bit since their day but a lot of people will listen to their parents over people that have actually been through the application process.

Somebody up thread asked about the comments box. On ours I used it to stress the date we had moved to our current address. The original letter had been sent to our old address several miles away and we'd only got it by luck. I'd applied with our new address (we had been there a year) but wanted to make it abundantly clear that they had had the incorrect address.

I know people who were harping on about putting their kids names down at (state) schools. I even searched to see if I was missing something, but I was right that it makes no difference. I'm it sure what actually happened when they "put the names down". Did a receptionist just write the names on a piece of paper and put it in a drawer or what?

God how embarrassing tiggytape. I banged on about all sorts of irrelevant drivel in mine. It just goes against everything I stand for to leave a comments box unfilled.

Hey Ho. Luckily I did at least read the stuff about putting at least one dead cert on the list.

You just know that next year, or in a couple of years time, 3 CheekyLittleMonkeys' friend will be telling all her friends who are applying that she only put one school down and got in. So it must have worked and they should do the same. Only by then the distancevof the last place offered will have shrunk and her friends won't get in.

School catchments and admissions in the UK - the whole system - has become ridiculously complicated and competitive. This benefits the clued-up middle classes.

Oh yes. People are really daft sometimes.

When I went through the application process, my mil constantly told me I should have put her name down. Everyone else would have put their names down last year, or even earlier, so the school will be full.

I spoke to one person last week who hadn't got a place, who was convinced some people got 3 or 4 offers, so when they choose the other places will be available. I couldn't get through that you only get one offer, your highest preference.

YANBU. We are fortunate to have got our first preference (already has a sibling and it's our closest primary) but I know of several parents at the school nursery who haven't got theirs.

They still cling onto the thought that because they are in the nursery, their child should have priority. One family does have a good reason why they wanted that school - not something spurious imho - but didn't note that on the application. Another family will be moving to catchment soon, but not yet, and certainly not at any time during the application process.

It's true that the older generation don't help. My dm drove me batty with her constant "put her name down".

I work for a local authority and we can see that the number of web downloads of admissions booklet is about 20% of people who actually apply. So vast majority apply without reading rules.
The biggest misconception is that only naming one school makes it more likely they'll get in. It makes absolutely no difference and if that was not their catchment school and they're allocated a place miles away instead, they'll get no help with transport costs.
Putting your name down for a school early only helps them to forecast pupil numbers. Nothing to do with getting a place.

bluebee - where I live, we don't have catchments - it's purely closest walking distance if you're not in a higher category (e.g. sibling priority).

However, I have a friend in a different LEA who told me that where she lives, they also take into account whether a school is your nearest. So say friend lives 100m from school A, and 500m from school B. If she applies to school B, she could be ranked below someone who lives 1500m from school B who has school B as their closest school.

3CheekyLittleMonkeys - DS1 didn't get our preferred school, and when I rang up the council asking for information, they told me how many siblings had applied to our preferred school, in addition to telling me the distance cut off this year, and how far down the list of refused children we were.

I don't see how this might breach data protection laws, because no names of any children other than DS1 were mentioned.

And also - I think parents do sometimes get bad advice from people who might reasonably be expected to know better.

I went to a school open evening for prospective parents last year, and one of the teachers was firmly telling parents that no, having a sibling already at the school did not help you get a place
My comment about how the official guidelines published by the council on their how to apply for schools webpage did, in fact, say that siblings got priority over children without a sibling at the school didn't go down well with the teacher.

Obviously everyone applying should take the time to read the official guidelines for their LEA, but I think that some confusion is understandable if parents are getting misinformation from teachers hosting open evenings and so on.

DS and I put a good state school as first choice, then the boys grammar as a back up plan (second choice). I couldn't believe the amount of people who told us that the grammar would only take those who put it as first option. The reality was that all the children who passed the test were listed in order of achievement, then the county council gave out places in order of entitlement.

Shadow Maybe not, but if they'd said there were 2 adopted children who were first on the list then maybe that would be a problem as parents might be wishing to keep it quiet.

Oh yes, MIL was on at me to 'put his name down' from when DS1 was literally weeks old as she'd read on the Daily Fail about the primary school place crisis. It took me ages to persuade her that it simply wasn't possible and that we'd have to wait until the year before he was due to start to apply. Don't think she fully believed me until he'd been safely allocated a place.

Having said all that, I really don't think the practice of registering an expression of interest helps. I've heard many parents refer to that as putting their DC's name down. In this area, you do need to register an interest to be send the admission info but how early you do it has no bearing on how likely you are to get a place. I can see how it's useful for individual schools to have a mailing list for open day info but surely it would be better for application packs to be sent out centrally.

Shadow in some (rural) areas even distance could be identifying, tbh.

Numbers applying with statements or as LAC are typically very low. Again, identifying.

Our offers are in order of preference, most get their first so the others state 'higher preference offered'. The amount of people that take this to mean that they also have a place at the lower preference school if they want it.

I know of one who nearly turned down her 1st preference offer as she had decided she preferred 2nd preference now. She thought 2nd school would just hand her a place because of what she understood 'higher preference offered' meant.

YANBU

I know someone who only put one choice on the basis that her child would then definitely get in, except of course he didnt and now she is going bonkers all over facebook, twitter, etc moaning about it. I wouldnt mind so much but several people, me included, did warn her that just putting one choice doesnt mean you will get in if you dont meet the criteria. Nope, she was certain as her cousins neighbours dogs brothers bosses husband did that and it worked for them. Except of course the CNDBB's husband live practically next door to the school and had 2 other kids there, whereas she is waaaaay out of catchment with no siblings.