stag do drama- who is being unreasonable?

[yorkshapudding]

Sorry for the essay, don't want to drip feed.

One of DH's friends is getting married next August. The wedding is in Italy (the bride is Italian) and, judging by the itinerary included in the invitation, is set to be a week long affair with the wedding itself on a Friday. DH has also had a couple of emails from the best man about the stag do which is a bit more low key, a weekend (2 nights) in a major city in the UK, pubs, meal out, go karting, staying in Travelodge or similar.

DH and I discussed it and came to the conclusion that for me, him and DD (2) to go to the wedding in Italy would be too much of a costly affair. With travel, accommodation and spending money plus time off work (DH is self employed so if he doesn't work he doesn't get paid) it all adds up. We talked about DH going alone to cut down the cost but he wasnt keen. He says it would still be expensive, he would still need to take time off and he wouldn't enjoy it without us. We both agree the money could be better spent elsewhere at the moment as we have recently moved into a house that needs quite a bit of work.

So DH sent his friend a nice email saying he was really sorry but we wouldn't be able to make it to Italy (and explained the reasons of work, money, new house etc) but that he was able to attend the stag do and we would also love to take the bride and groom out for a special meal to celebrate when they're back in the UK. His friend replied with a very long, ranting email saying that it was "hurtful" that we weren't going to come to his wedding when he had "made the effort" to attend ours. I understand him being upset that we aren't going but did think it was a daft comparison as our wedding was a 30minute drive from his house. The bit that really surprised me though was that he went on and on about how it was "extremely rude and disrespectful" of DH to think he could RSVP no to the wedding and still want to go to the stag. He actually said he was "in shock" over it.

Is there some etiquette around this that we were unaware of? I had a couple of girls at my hen do who weren't able to make it to the wedding (work commitments) and DH had a mate at his stag do who couldn't make it (his sister was getting married the same day) and we weren't offended in the slightest. Is that strange of us? I would have thought if your friends couldn't make it to the big day you would still be pleased to have the chance to celebrate with them on the stag/hen?

So, mn jury, who is being unreasonable?

DH really hates falling out with anyone and wants to send another apology email to smooth things over but I don't really feel he has anything to apologise for (having already said sorry we can't make it to the wedding) and that his friend is being a bit "groomzilla"! Am prepared to be told IABU though.

Nynaeves, DH didn't mention the possibility of him going alone in the email because he had already decided against that option. The reasons for this are that it would still be costly, would still require time off work and he would have felt uncomfortable going alone as he wouldn't know anyone. I suppose some people would see those as selfish reasons but to be honest, I wouldn't want to go to a wedding abroad on my own so I can see his point. All he said in the email was congratulations, that we were really happy for them etc. Then it said that we were sorry we couldn't stretch to a trip to Italy next year but we would like to take them for dinner after the wedding when they're back in the UK to celebrate. Then he said that he had received the email from the BM about the stag and that he was able to attend and was looking forward to it. I honestly thought it was a nice email, nothing particularly inflammatory but I completely accept that with hindsight a phone call would have been better.

I do think the rant about not attending the wedding was unreasonable, but there has just been a thread about friends of a bride saying they couldn't afford to attend her wedding, but then wanting to arrange an expensive hen do, and the bride was (rightly, IMO) quite upset about their priorities.

I'm inclined to agree with Wizard, to be honest. The cost of the stag do(karting is very expensive) added to the cost of a dinner out are probably a lot more than the travel and accommodation costs for yorksha's DH to attend on his own for the actual wedding.

Oh come on, an overnighter stag do with drinks and karting wouldn't cost more than 250 max? And a nice dinner for four - around 320 at most unless you really push the boat out. 570 total and probably a lot less.

Clothes, flights, 4 x airport transfers (OP says remote location), 2 nights hotel accomodation, loss of self-employed earnings for 2+ days = a hell of a lot more than 570.

Well from what you have said of the email, and the fact that it requested RSVP via email, then I think your DH did everything correctly. Groomzilla it is!

Really?

Don't most men have a suit/shirt/tie combo suitable for a wedding? So no cost there.

Flights using Easyjet, etc, can be very cheap, and there are backpackers hostels and small pensions all over Italy. A person on their own could stay very cheaply.

It could be a loss of two days work. But I am self-employed, and spent yesterday (Sunday) afternoon working to finish something off. I understand that if he is a builder, say, or works in someone else's office, this would not necessarily be an option.

So, yes, I think you could bring it in for less than £570.

YANBU. IME most people can only afford one holiday abroad a year so if you get married abroad, you are expecting people to spend their one holiday at a location they probably wouldn't have chosen themselves. Nothing wrong with getting abroad by the way but if you do, you can't expect everyone to be able/want to attend.

I do agree that if you can't afford to go, then that's fine, and the groom should understand that.

But to say you are unable to afford to go to the wedding, but then be able to splash out on a stag do, seems off to me. I would be upset, if I was the groom. (But as I said upthread, the rant was unreasonable.)

I also have a lot of friends who have married someone from another country where the wedding hasn't been in England, including in Italy. Many of these weddings took place in my banking and prechild days where people had plenty of disposible flying around. I don't know anyone who would expect guests to take a full week off from work in the way that the OPs DH has been asked to (with wedding on Friday) and then strop when they can't make it. I really can't imagine in whose world this would be considered 'normal'. The groom is being completely and utterly unreasonable.

yorksha I am very curious as to whether your DH had any heads up this was coming. Have the groomzilla and wife to be done ANYTHING to try to secure cheaper accommodation rates/airport transfers etc? Or is it just: Here's where the church/venues are, you take a week off from work and sort and pay for everything and now I'm pissed that you're not doing it. I also married someone from another country and these were things we did for example.

Just to add my two pennies worth in, from a chaps point of view....

Basic understanding from me and friends over the years is - you cant go to the wedding you don't do the stag do....

I do however, think his response by email is a tad over the top.

OVienna, we knew they were engaged but weren't sure whether the wedding would be in Italy or the UK. Before the invitation arrived we didn't know it was going to be a week long thing but not surprising as the Groom doesn't tend to do things by halves and is a bit of a party animal. His birthday parties have always been major events for example. He has never had a regular job (he's a talented artist but only works sporadically and spends a lot of time travelling, which he is able to do due to inherited wealth) so might not appreciate that others don't have the same flexibility. We don't know his bride to be so couldn't hazard a guess as to what she would want. In terms of accommodation it was clear from the info with the invitation that they are hoping all their guests will stay in the same hotel as them, no other details of accommodation were provided. It's quite a remote area so not a huge choice of accomodation anyway as I understand it. This doesn't bother me to be honest, we're capable of booking our own flights, accommodation etc so wouldn't expect them to do that for us although I do think it was kind of you to go to so much trouble for your guests I wouldn't expect it IYSWIM.

Tell the groom to man up, if you are having a foreign wedding then you can't expect everyone to attend.

The bucks party is a separate occasion to celebrate past memories and congratulate the buck on his future life, just because you attend doesn't mean you are somehow required to attend the wedding (especially if it is abroad)..

Fcuk, that is helpful as I am a bit clueless when it comes to wedding etiquette so did wonder if a lot of people hold this view and we had made a massive faux-pas.

I started out thinking the groom was being VU. But as I reflect, it does seem as if you were looking for reasons not to find a way for it to work. Specifically, you've not looked into the costs of DH going out alone for the minimum period, and you mention that going alone would be unpalatable because he wouldn't know anyone. On the latter point, you kind of suck that up for really good friends, IMO. And it doesn't gel with the later post about other friends not having made a decision yet and needing to warn them. A two or three day trip by DH alone would have been expensive and tiring and difficult but not, by the sound of it, inconceivably difficult, just not that great an option. But it has to be weighed vs hurt feelings and what one mate is willing to do for another. And I do think saying yes to the stag is rubbing salt in the wound a bit.

Homehelp, thanks for the response. I see where you're coming from although that certainly wasn't our intention. We did think about the costs involved if DH went alone (sorry if that wasn't clear) but ultimately he decided against it as it would still involve significant (for us) expense, time off work and he didn't want to go alone. Yes, he could "suck it up" so in that sense is being selfish but I can understand why he doesn't want to go all the way to Italy for an experience that will make him anxious. I'm not a shy/anxious person like DH but even I would feel uncomfortable aytending a wedding alone not knowing people. Sorry, I don't think I explained properly in my previous post, the mutual friends have decided they're not going to the wedding but they haven't communicated this to the B&G yet. The bit they were undecided about was the stag. I think DH felt he would be letting his friend down twice by missing both the wedding and the stag (he's not actually a fan of stag do's due to shyness in groups, not being a drinker etc) so thought he was doing a nice thing by going to the stag. Obviously the Groom saw it the way you see it so I think we definitely made an error of judgement there.

I don't think your DH has done anything wrong OP.

Even if he could find cheap flights and of course hire car for transport, it sounds as if he'd be obliged to stay in the expensive hotel or Groom would have a strop about that as well.

I must admit that even if it was my bestest westest friend in all the entire world, I would blanche at forking out £750 ( conservative estimate) to spend a couple of days alone just to go to a drama, and if you haven't met the B2B you can't all be that close to the couple.

There's a world of difference between spending £50-100 on a night out and almost a grand and your DH's email seemed fine.
I'd echo those saying to go back on a polite note, but friendship seems over anyway.

YANBU!!

I think you and DH took the brunt of all his disappointments, I expect they've had quite a few refusals. Who has time to spend a WEEK celebrating someone else's wedding? People are just ridiculous these days.

Well at least he can get out of the stag now OP! Send an email back, something like 'yes, I didn't see it before, but I guess it is cheeky (it isn't) to come to the stag and not the wedding. I hope you have a fantastic time, and we'll hope to take you and your new wife out to celebrate when you get back.' Snatch that get out of jail free card!

Golly, the groom has behaved very oddly. But I suspect as girlie said they're getting quite a lot of 'can not attends'.

And much as I love Italy it is not a cheap place to visit in my experience so I can understand why the cost would put people off.

I'd just do as Elizabeth suggested - ie, not reply. Leave the dust to settle.

I don't think there's anything wrong in going to the stag and not the wedding especially as the stag is in the UK and an hour away from OP's DH and the wedding bit is in Italy, a week long, not exactly a Travelodge, and will use up a big wedge of family budget just for one member of the family to attend.

Seeing as groomzilla is funded by an inheritance and a bit of painting, I think he is blinkered as to how much he is asking of his normal friends who have families and have to work for a living. I would end a friendship over this kind of treatment.

The groom is being a me, me, me Diva and sod his friends for not being rich enough and not loving him enough. I really wouldn't want a friend like that, regardless of the length of our history together.

Agree with the posters saying the Groom is a bit of a Diva. He does have his good points though and he and DH have been friends for a long time so I hope they can stay friends once the dust has settled. Neither of them are the type to hold grudges so I'm hopeful. With hindsight, I think DH should have phoned him to have the conversation and perhaps said something along the lines of "I'm free the weekend of the stag but if you want to keep it to people going to the wedding I understand" so the ball was in his court. DH has decided not to reply via email, he's going to give him a couple of days to calm down then ring him for a chat but I don't think he's planning on apologising.

YANBU not sure what it is about weddings that seem to send normally level headed people crazy. One of my friends is only just speaking to me again after my wedding was on a date that she couldn't make. Makes no difference if they came to your wedding and anyway attending a wedding is supposed to be a pleasure and a privilege not a chore!! I bet they had a great time at your wedding they make it sound like they walked over coals for you!! I'd say forget it and hopefully he'll realise when the wedding drama calms down that he's been a bit of an idiot. Xx

He shouldn't apologise either. The groom is being a twat and I love it on here when people think you should do something, that as a family you have decided you can't do or are unable to afford, just to please other people. How many people would honestly take a week off unpaid, go abroad alone for a week long wedding where they didn't know anyone? I know I wouldn't. I'm not overly looking forwards to a wedding we have coming up as our children aren't invited, we can't get overnight care for them and it's 2 hours away and me and DH only know the groom and vaguely the bride. and there was a tacky poem and we think its going to be really pretentious.

A week long wedding abroad is ridiculous if you are expecting people to go. What is it that is often said on here "it is an INVITATION NOT A SUMMONS" some posters should remember that.

Yeah, what is it about weddings?!

So many posters seem to start with an assumption that the DH 'should' go to the wedding. Why? Why should he have to find excuses about costs and family and holiday. He doesn't want to go. Not because he doesn't like the groom, but for other reasons. And that's enough! There is no obligation to attend parties (except perhaps your parents/children's). It is an 'opt in'. So if the DH doesn't want to go, the groom is totally not OK to kick up a fuss. And if the stag-do didn't come with an instruction that it was only for wedding attendees, then I don't see why that's relevant either.