to feel so disheartened at the family court system

[currantbunsforeyes]

Ex has been harassing me using the courts for years. He's had prohibited steps order placed on me by making up lies that I'm a flight risk, appealed decisions, etc.... This has gone on for years until I was awarded sole res due to his ongoing harassment.

Despite this he's still taking me to court for shared res. There was a stay (prevention order) to stop him for doing this for two years but now they are up I'm back in court. The judge has asked for new hearing and agreed to ex's request to leave out old judgements from bundle! WTF!!! The old judgements shows how his harassment and constant harassing using courts led to me ending up with sole res.

I feel like there is no point, no consistency. I've been doing this now for eight years. PS I'm generous with contact. Dcs have alternate weekends and mid week overnight stays with him.

Are the family law court system that messed up?

Oh my god hard. Have you changed GP's. I know baby is currently involved with the Ombudsman, lodging a complaint against her SS, have you considered that! Have you seen Police? I know baby reported ex to the Police and they did interview her ds in Janurary, contact was stopped, SS were involved again, then contact resumed, but ex is doing a no show. Its horrific hard, these courts decisions, are damaging children. I hope these kids sue the system that put them through that.

Its disgusting, as lessons have not been learned, and they are still doing the monumental fuck ups that they are doing before. By the way, you have revealed your dd name, mabey ask MN to delete that.

If you have concerns about sexual abuse you have to report it to the police.

the problems then start if the police or children's services investigate and take no further action because they don't agree that there are concerns.

It is difficult talking about this; I have done so on previous threads and caused a lot of anger and upset. I stress - I know nothing of individual poster's circumstances other than what I read here. I haven't read the police/social worker reports, I don't know what the other side are saying. I cannot possibly be criticising you or doubting your story.

all I can say is that sadly, I have experienced many, many cases where parents did exaggerate and manipulate situations to make out that the other parent was an abuser. I think it was very rarely done out of deliberate malice, but rather stress, anxiety and fear made the parent see everything through a particular lens. Everything the other parent did was perceived to be abusive.

If this is the view that the professionals take of a situation then you are in a very hard place. Because if you do keep fighting, this will be seen as further evidence that you are trying to sabotage your child's relationship with a the other parent.

All I can advise is that if you are seriously worried, you have to make a referral to either police or children's services. If you can get counselling/intervention for yourself or your children this will probably help.

It is a hellishly difficult situation. I am sure some genuine, dangerous abusers are able to slip through the net and manipulate professionals into believing them. But I am equally sure that some parents are now deprived of a relationship with their child because the other parent became overcome by anxiety and fear, fuelled by their dislike of the other parent.

Professionals have the unenviable and often extremely difficult task of trying to work out where on the spectrum each case fits. It doesn't help that very often allegations are very old or not supported by any corroborating evidence - but I accept that this the nature of these cases. Very often it takes years to accept that your relationship is actually damaging or dangerous and you are not collecting evidence as you go.

I've never spoken to the police, I've always been led to believe they can't intervene when a court order is in place. I've also been through it so many times I don't see much point, there has been 3 court applications by him over the last 3 years, he has got exactly what he wanted each time regardless and the last time we went through it every time I disagreed with cafcas they wrote a brand knew report recommending more contact, the more I stood my ground the more they suggested that I was the abusive one with ZERO evidence, but I had mountains against him that was ignored. Considering each set of proceedings last around a year I have spent 50% of DD's life fighting court battles and the rest trying to get SS, the school, GP, the local children's centre to listen but it all falls on death ears. I have no hope, worst of all my DD for the most part doesn't know he abuses her, she doesn't know that letting her stay up all night, eat junk food, chocolate for breakfast, sleep with boys, bath with boys, is abuse. She doesn't know he's lying, that the things he says about me are wrong and abusive. She doesn't know that showing her animal corpses and telling her about Ian Huntley and the Soham murders IN DETAIL, then suggesting she should not trust her step-dad because Holly and Jessica trusted Ian and got drowned in a bathtub for it, I don't even want to remember how long she had nightmares over that one. She doesn't know that being told to be naughty for me is abuse, she doesn't know that him promising to give her sweets if she says horrible things about me to his family is abuse. She doesn't know that him promising her horse riding lessons if she tells the nice (cafcas) lady she want to live with him not me is abuse. She pretty much thinks the sun shines out of his rear end and that me and my husband are the devil. Because I say no to chocolate and make her go to bed at an appropriate time for her age.
But hey it's fine, he probably won't murder her so he can do what he likes. Lol such a messed up court system.

I would go to Police, and change your GP, ask for a referral to a child clinical psychologist. Yes I agree Spero, there are mothers out there, who do that, they make the situation worse for genuine abuse cases. Like those who make up rape allegations and cry wolf. It's awful.

Your child's behaviour sounds very very concerning indeed. And she is being sexually exploited by her father, I would most certainly go to the Police. They will contact children's services, as well as doing their own investigation.

I'm well aware of vindictive mothers I assure youwww.mumsnet.com/Talk/parenting/2355081-No-idea-what-to-do-for-the-best
I posted this recently.
My husband goes through hell, his ex wife's behaviour is blatant, reducing his contact to coincide with anything good happening to our family. It is clear jealousy and nastiness. But she too is convincing the boys it's their idea, that they don't want to see us, that they hate their dad and why again? Because he says no to zero rules and letting them run riot, while she buys then Xbox games for slagging their dad off and saying they hate him.
He won't take it to court because he knows it will make her worse and the boys will suffer more than they already are, he would never even consider forcing them but then he has stood and held my hand while my DD has been dragged down the road kicking and screaming, yelling "mummy, please no.I don't want to go with him" he has seen the screaming nightmares and the anger and violence I have to deal with when she first arrives home. He says I am the strongest women in the world, that he would not survive it.
I know that there are selfish women out there, but there are as many selfish men. It is also absolutely blindingly obvious in both my case and my husband's situation, but my evidence is ignore and he won't even consider court because he would never put his kids through it, never use them to punish his ex and would never in a million years have the mother of his boys sent to prison. The only people that suffer are the children.
My husband also doesn't have a God complex, he knows his sons with have a better life without him that in a constant war between him and their mother. He still has hope, that she will one day get over it and be civil but he sees no benefit in placing the boys in the trenches of an emotional war.

I'm sorry to read so many difficult stories on here. I feel for you and your kids very much.

Spero, you asked what could change for the better. My experience is rather limited compared to some on here but relevant I think. My husband had to fight for residency of his children with his ex, who was emotionally abusive to him and them. Beyond a dreadful, unprofessional Cafcass officer, who was eventually reprimanded in the final hearing and was clearly so far off the curve of normal Cafcass staff that DH's hugely experienced barrister and solicitor labelled her the worst they'd come across, the staff were never the issue. As you say, the judges varied in their approach but none appeared to be acting outside the realms of reason. But the way the system worked was a big problem.

Ie different judges each time with no court record so each time the case was essentially 'heard' from first principles. Each time, by the end of the hearing, the judge appeared to have the measure of the ex except in one instance, but it was emotionally draining to have to go through everything each time and end up with very inconsistent rulings from a variety of people. Most of all of course it prolonged things because often judges felt unable to make big rulings so asked for further information. The worst occasion was the hearing after the 'final' hearing, when DH had been awarded residency but contact not finalised because of the distress of his ex, when the judge explicitly said she would hear the second hearing too, then forgot (this was what we were told) and so contact was decided by a brand new person with no notes, who gave contact wildly differing from what the judge who had sat through the final hearing was minded to award.

Also my husband was self-funding and his ex on legal aid, so the whole thing literally bankrupted him. Six years on we are still dealing with the financial outfall. Looking back though, many of the things she did were outwith her legal aid certificate, which we were too inexperienced to know, and had we felt able to challenge that, she would have been less able to harass him through the courts for a year.

So more consistency of judges, a formal court record, more time for judges to read papers, and a more proactive attitude to legal aid restrictions would all have shortened his experience, ultimately saving the kids from a huge amount of trauma, and the system a lot of money. I reckon.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/parenting/2355081-No-idea-what-to-do-for-the-best

Hard I am that 'professionals' have missed so many red flags with your dd behaviour. No this is not normal, she is a little girl, not a teenager. Police definitely, they will have to investigate, and make contact with the Children's Services. CS will probably call a child protection meeting, with Police involved. Police will most definitely speak to your dd, and will have specially trained child protection officers. Your dd sounds very open to speak, I am sure they will be very concerned about her behaviour.

This is what happened to my friend, but they were looking at one incident, and I dont think he was displaying in quite the overt way in which your dd is.

spero

I know we have had passing comments on this one a lot over the years. And I apoligise that I cannot quote your earlier post my iPad is playing silly buggers.

Contact and the children's right to an equal relationship if safe to have it is really the ideal but people always forget that extra line "if safe"

It's about time both the legal system and human beings actually looked at it and acknowledged that domestic abusers do not make adequate parents.

We live in a society that places more responsibility on mothers for staying in a relationship with an abuser than we do on the actual abuser.

Over the years I have had so many clients who whilst in the relationship live with the genuine fear of having children removed due to the risk of witnessing DA but almost as soon as they do protect the children by running the abusive parent is granted not insignificant contact often almost straight away the abuser gets into another 'serious' relationship where abuse is an issue so the children are still witnessing it just with a differnt woman and often includes witnessing further abuse towards their mother at handover and inbetween and it's all state sanctioned. It makes no sense at all.

Either we as a society take a hard line against abuse and understanding that domestic violence is also child abuse by sending a message saying if you abuse your partner and you have children or she is pregnant then you will be considered to be a child abuser or we carry on playing at pretending we think DA is not tolerated.

I know it's a pipe dream but in my ideal world an abuser would never get unsupervised contact with a none verbal or additionally vulnerable child and supervised would extend to years whilst childrens theapy and specialist services provide the family with relevant services and if the abuser is none compliant or none engaged or dishonest or continuing to exhibit abusive behaviours we should say enough is enough we are going to prevent you from continuing and protect your children from you.

I totally agree with you sock. Abuse does transgress over to the child, yes when the abuser is abusing a partner, they are also abusing the child who is in that environment and witnessing it. You would not hand your child to an abusive childminder or relative, why is it ok for the courts to give contact to abusive parents. The child's safety and wellbeing should be placed above and beyond anything.

hard Please change your GP surgery and present evidence to your new GP, and ask for a referral to a Child Psychologist or CAHMS

Aero, last time I changed my GP she said "how can you be suffering domestic violence from someone you don't live with anymore" How completely ignorant and clueless, sometimes I actually think I am losing my mind, so so many people just don't have the slightest inkling of what abuse is or how it affects others.
I chose to visit with women's refuge and do freedom and some self help courses on the anxiety and depression I sometimes suffer when the abuse is at its worst (he usually goes into overdrive if I seem like I might be too happy at any point)
My midwife was very understanding when I was pregnant with DS, she recommended I change my mobile because of constant bullying and harassment, this was the second time this had been suggested (first time was by my DV counsellor at the women's refuge about a year before, but I hesitant as communication for DD was important) I changed it because I realised that he had not used my number to communicate about DD in an extremely long time and that in fact, the final straw was when DS was 2 day old (the day he found out he had been born) he messaged me to tell me my DD hates me, wants to live with him, I'm the worst mother in the world. 100% deliberately vicious behaviour to ruining my son's birth and my happiness. I later got told off in court for not providing him with a contact number, I was irresponsible and not thinking of DD! I am the only person on this planet that actually does think of her!!!

100% agree with Sock!

hard I am so sorry if I come over as ignorant and patronising. It sounds as though you have tried everything. I would go to the Police next. Where there has been abuse or DV, judges have to think extremly carefully about the chikds safety, and whether contact is safe. They have to look carefully at the evidence before them (yes they do, but as can be seen from experiences of others on here, not all do). Really they should be held accountable for their actions,like other professionals are.

This is pasted from the family law week report... I think it's about 2 years old

Courts not following law and procedure in domestic violence child contact cases’

Unsupervised contact routinely given to abusive fathers, says Rights of Women

A research report recently published by Rights of Women and CWASU – Picking up the pieces – explores the experiences of women and legal professionals in London of the law, policy and practice in child contact proceedings involving women and their violent ex-partners.

Rights of Women says that the research reveals negative experiences of the family justice system's response to domestic violence. These include failures by the courts to investigate allegations of domestic violence, the tendency of courts and other professionals to minimise the known harm domestic violence can have on children and a trend of court approved contact with violent fathers that is unsafe for children and their mothers.

The report found that:

Despite histories of violence, children refusing contact or expressing terror and distress, unsupervised contact was found to be routinely ordered to abusive fathers.
74% of women interviewed said they had concerns for their safety while attending court
52% of women interviewed had represented themselves in court proceedings at some stage
All women interviewed experienced ongoing violence and abuse post-separation
Most women wanted their child(ren) to have a relationship with the father, despite the violence they had experienced but wanted to ensure that any contact would be would be physically and emotionally safe for them and their children
79% of legal professionals reported that regaining power and control was a primary motivation behind applications for child contact by perpetrators of violence
Only 10% of legal professionals said that judges fully complied with the judicial guidance for dealing with child contact cases where domestic violence is an issue
90% of women identified some degree of impoverishment as a result of the legal proceedings, commonly because they were unable to work. Some were prevented from finding work and some had to give up their jobs.
45% of women experienced violence after the making of a contact order, most commonly threats and harassment.
The report makes the following recommendations:

There must be a robust and statutory framework in place within the family justice system which ensures the early identification and effective response to women and children's experiences of domestic violence.
Judges, solicitors, barristers, CAFCASS officers and mediators must receive compulsory, specialist training on domestic violence and its impacts on women and children's lives.
Courts must seek risk assessments from specialist domestic violence organisations before making a decision about contact.
Adequate and appropriate safeguards should be put in place to enable women to voice their concerns about their and their children's safety.
Special facilities that mirror those available in criminal proceedings must be introduced in civil proceedings to prevent victim-survivors of domestic violence from having to face perpetrators in court and protect victim/survivors from direct cross-examination by their perpetrators and contact with them inside court buildings.
The Government must monitor the impact of the Legal Aid Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 on the representation of parties in private Children Act proceedings, including disaggregating data about applicants and respondents by gender and status.
The Ministry of Justice must collect and record data on:
o the presence and extent of domestic violence (rather than allegations of harm) in private family law proceedings;
o whether or not finding of fact hearings are held where there are allegations of domestic violence;
o reasons for not holding finding of fact hearings where there are allegations of domestic violence.

Following the recommendation of the Family Justice Review, there must be judicial continuity in child contact cases.
CAFCASS must review the decision to revoke their Domestic Violence Toolkit.
CAFCASS must have an effective complaints process and a clear and transparent process for requesting a change of CAFCASS officer.
The Government must take into account the recommendations of the Family Justice Review and the wealth of evidence on child contact proceedings and domestic violence, and reconsider proposals to introduce a legislative presumption that both parents should be involved in children's lives.
The number and geographical availability of specialist supervised contact centres/provision must be increased to address ongoing risks.
The Government must urgently review the decision to restrict legal aid in family law cases.
The full report can be accessed here.

Thanks for that baby I will read that later when kids are quiet

Not you dear, you seem to be one of the few that have your head screwed on, I meant the GP was.
I've spent so many year banging my head against brick walls and achieving nothing, being constantly scapegoats as the problem, with each time the suggestion that I'm the abuser who just hates her ex and is lying, exaggerating, framing him getting worse and worse and this absurd belief that a bad father is better than no father, all mums exaggerate/lie and all dads are either victims of false allegations or only low risk so its worth it(?!?!?!?!!?) I believe without a shadow of doubt if I don't just do as I'm told, shut up and go away, they will reverse resident to make me.

OP that is one hell of a time to be dragged through the courts. I went through it for about 3 years and thought that was appalling.

I also had a litigation-happy ex. And by litigation happy I mean, this man had about 20 actions in the High Court. Apparently they don't have a joined up computer system and no-one can just take a fraction of a second to hit a button on a database and see whether the parties involved in a Family Court case are mentally ill serial litigants, like my ex. It would have saved me a lot of heartache if the courts actually dragged themselves into the 21stC and had a simple way to check up if the litigants concerned were frequent flyers. Then have a summary judgement against them. Much cheaper.

As it was, the Family Courts in my case took several years to figure out what I told them at the first hearing - that he would go on and on and drag me through every court in the land, because he is a barrack room lawyer who is unemployed and has nothing else to think about.

He lost residency and any direct contact. He appealed. He lost. He then continually appealed dotting is and crossing ts. The Judge probably had an inkling, as he reserved the case whenever it came up, to himself. But rather than just draw a line in the sand and invoke a section (forget the number but that order where you can stop mad people vexatiously litigating), the judge continued to allow him to bring new hearings, even though he lost every one.

Each time, I knew I'd soon be back for another.

Thing is, if everything was really in the best interests of the children, the courts would intervene sooner, to protect primary caregivers from vexatious litigation. Because the stress it puts you under, means your true family life is on hold.

Only people who have been through it can understand how traumatic it is.

All this started when my older kid was maybe 3 and he is now nearly 15. The courts did well by me in the end - they stopped him from having any contact whatsoever with the kids. But I did have that extra couple of years of endless hearings long after it was resolved, where they didn't pull the section whatever order, and could have.

It's shocking, it really is. It's abhorrent and disgusting. My field is psychology, I hope to train to be a Clinical Psychologist. I can only imagine the psychological impact abd trauma this has on the poor vulnerable child, and the parent trying to protect the child. I should retrain and go into family law instead.

Shakes head with utter disbelief. Have they learned nothing. Evidence being ignored and overlooked by, judges, SS, GP, Other professionals. Reverse residency, what a joke!

It makes depressing reading when you consider how few of those recommendations actually exist.
I've had five years of a self representing, frequent flyer continuing his abuse through the courts.
He is a convicted abuser. I have a Re L hearing in my favour.
He now has unsupervised contact with the children who still want to see him.
But he still objects repeatedly to any parameters set. And constantly applies for variations.
The judge now schedules all proceedings during her sittings but she is still, in my opinion, limited by incompetent, untrained, inefficient social workers who are incapable of reading a case file and recognising the extent of his abuse and his motivations behind his conduct.
If it wasn't for my solicitor I would have had a break down years ago.
The physical, psychological, social and financial toll are enormous.

The repeated court actions are beyond stressful. I should say the reason DH only had 18 months of them was that his ex died. Otherwise I have no doubt that she would have carried on ad infinitum. Threats of court action every week and endless, endless legal letters, and every aspect of contact dragged back to court. She stopped sending 60 texts a day after the police intervened but the court remained her outlet.

It's very. I feel that judges should be under more scrutiny and be made accountable for their actions, especially where there is evidence that their judgement, led to the abuse and neglect of a child, and that they failed to look at the evidence before them, or dismissed it.