to feel so disheartened at the family court system

[currantbunsforeyes]

Ex has been harassing me using the courts for years. He's had prohibited steps order placed on me by making up lies that I'm a flight risk, appealed decisions, etc.... This has gone on for years until I was awarded sole res due to his ongoing harassment.

Despite this he's still taking me to court for shared res. There was a stay (prevention order) to stop him for doing this for two years but now they are up I'm back in court. The judge has asked for new hearing and agreed to ex's request to leave out old judgements from bundle! WTF!!! The old judgements shows how his harassment and constant harassing using courts led to me ending up with sole res.

I feel like there is no point, no consistency. I've been doing this now for eight years. PS I'm generous with contact. Dcs have alternate weekends and mid week overnight stays with him.

Are the family law court system that messed up?

[ArtichokeHeartsAppleCarts]

I agree currant the system is a perfect breeding ground for them.
I hope you can find a way to stop the legal madness your ex is creating

[Aeroflotgirl]

Mummy your poor dd and you. I know of another Mumsnetter going through similar with her abusive ex, she has been through hell like you. Her ds is 6 and was being sexually and emotionally abused by her ex. She is so much happier and her ds as ex has not shown for a while.

[FreudiansSlipper]

it is obvious why the op does not want shared custody a good parent does not harass the other parent they are not abusive as this has an impact on their child's life but so many are caught up on their own feelings of anger

the family court system can be terrible at times and so often used to manipulate and cause hurt and stress but apparently the courts do what is the best for the children and often ignores the nrp behaviour towards the rp and ignores the stress that this can cause

[PtolemysNeedle]

Has he done anything to harass you in a way that isn't about him getting more contact with his children?

[FreudiansSlipper]

Mummy that is awful beyond words :(

[Spero]

There are enormous problems with the family court system.

Mainly - in my opinion, having worked in them for 15 years - because the legal system is wholly inapt to deal with what are often psychological problems.

Parents who hate each other more than they love their children. Who treat applications as a game or a way to control or abuse.

But what are you suggesting is the solution? Children have a right to know both parents if it is safe for them. This is a right protected by domestic and international law. If one parent wants to restrict or curtail another parent's relationship with the children, who oversees that? Who makes the decisions? Who looks out for the children?

I hear a lot of people slagging off the system but I rarely hear any suggestions for what on earth we do to sort out the aftermath of toxic relationships that produced children.

I suppose one thing might have been not to remove legal aid from private law disputes but I don't see that being reversed any time soon.

[Aeroflotgirl]

The court system sounds very hit and miss. You may get a good judge and CAFCASS officer or you may get a woman hatinpy mysogenist of a hedge and a totally incompetent CAFCASS officer, if you have both at the same time, your are fooked.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Meant woman hating mysogenist of a judge.

[Spero]

The court system is full of humans. Thus you will get some who are better than others. I haven't met many judges who are really bad in my time. I have met more dodgy Cafcass officers. But they are still the minority. Most have been competent.

People's perceptions of how 'good' or 'bad' professionals are may well be skewed by how much of their case they think they won or lost.

[Spero]

Funny isn't it? Listen to Fathers For Justice and you would think every judge was a rabid man hater - but switch over to Women's Aid and all the Judges are clueless misogynists who promote the rights of violent men.

the truth, as ever, must be somewhere between those extremes.

[FreudiansSlipper]

parents who treat the courts as a way to control

I am sure at times it is both parents playing this game but what about when it is not when the relationship was controlling and abusive this person is not a good parent they should have restricted access as they have issues they need to deal with to be able to act like a responsible parent

I get so tired of hearing well he was an abusive partner but he is a great dad (and of course this can be the mother who was abusive) rubbish an abusive partner and one who continues to be so is not a great parent

the courts need to look at these people for who they are and their actions not just seeing them as being the biological parent who a child has rights to have a relationship with because that is exploited and so many know this

[Spero]

the courts need to look at these people for who they are and their actions not just seeing them as being the biological parent who a child has rights to have a relationship with because that is exploited and so many know this

Ok, well first we are going to have to resile from the ECHR because Article 8 demands that judges investigate why a child should have a restricted or curtailed relationship with a parent.

there has to be an investigation. The Judge can't just take one parents word for it that the other parent is awful. They have to consider the evidence. So that may mean that one parent gets further abused in the process of that investigation.

But I repeat - what is the solution? If I was accused of being abusive and told I could only see my child in a contact centre once a month, I would definitely want to have the opportunity to have my voice heard in court.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Yes unfortunately it is, and humans have faults. I think it used to be like that Spero, now it's done a U turn, you have the judges bending over backwards to facilitate contact for the NRP, and women being seen as obstructive and troublesome if they try to contest it.

[Spero]

Yes, and I have had plenty of cases where men were denied contact other then a few letters a year, and seen them cry and be utterly defeated. Sometimes there were good reasons for that - but sometimes there weren't.

No one is a winner when parents can't agree over their children. Least of all the children. No court can make that situation better. They do the best they can. But this is essentially a problem of human relationships and the court is just not an appropriate arena for these kind of problems. It cannot offer appropriate solutions.

[FreudiansSlipper]

of course it has to be investigated I would not say it shouldn't be

but even when evidence is given too often it is overlooked and the attitude of well lets give them a chance to be a good parent

abusive people are not good parents until they have sorted themselves out they cause a huge about of stress and harm that impacts family life even if they are not living there

surely get yourself sorted out prove yourself to have grown as a person then you get more of a chance to parent your child and more importantly the child/children are not put in a position that is all to often emotionally harmful to them (and at times it is not just emotional harm we are talking about)

[Aeroflotgirl]

No it cannot, there must have been reasons as to why these men got that type of contact. There was a article in the media about a lady called Natalie Allman, who was attacked and nearly killed by her ex, her children witnessed it. The ex was able to get legal aid to pursue contact in the form of regular updates, and photos from Natalie about the children, if she did not comply she would be sent to prison. Where's the justice in that, she has had to fund her own legal defence herself, she is the victim and her children are of such horrific crime.

[Aeroflotgirl]

As Spero correctly pointed out, the court system isen't perfect, I totally agree. Judges cannot be 100% impartial, they have views, feelings and ideologies that may influence their judgement.

[PtolemysNeedle]

Not everyone who has to fight through the courts to see their children is abusive though.

[FreudiansSlipper]

no of course not

but that is the direction the thread has moved

[Littlefluffyclouds81]

OP - luckily for me the courts put the order to stop him making any further application in place for dd's entire childhood, until she is 16 (she's 4 now). The judge could see how my ex was using litigation to harass me, and it was felt that he'd done enough of that during our relationship.

I am so sorry you're going through this. It is so draining, exhausting and unsettling to have it hanging over your head.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Little you were lucky,you had a judge who could quite clearly see what was happening and probably read the evidence and used it to help his judgement, instead of ignoring it and brushing it under the carpet.

[Aeroflotgirl]

The mumsnetter that I mentioned earlier, her barrister said that if she had a different judge, this would be totally different and in her favour for her. It was unlucky she had this idiot of a judge.

[bimandbam]

OP he stopped when dd was 4. She is 10 now. He still has her eow and occasionally in the holidays.

What stopped it in my case was refusing to attend mediation and any court hearings. My solicitor wrote to cafcas and to the courts stating that they could see no benefit to dd for me to be upset, stressed and miss work to cover the same issues. And that they felt if I wasn't attending and he was unable to see me it would be the last hearing.

Apparently in the hearing the magistrate allowed my solicitor to read the letter out and made it clear that if the case came before him again unless there had been a major breach of the order he would look into having the legal aid certificate revoked.

I also stopped all direct contact with him. I was very lucky that my family helped with hand overs. It took a couple of years of not responding to any if his inflammatory comments and nc but now he has left me alone for a good few years.

Whether or not it works in your case I am not suRe. He was emotionally and financially abusive as well as on occasion physically abusive. But when I removed myself completely feom his reach he eventually ran out of steam.

It is incredibly difficult I know. And the court system is flawed in that it allows the nrp to persecute the rp. And I have seen it fail the other way too.

[Spero]

but even when evidence is given too often it is overlooked and the attitude of well lets give them a chance to be a good parent

I fundamentally and wholly disagree with that - at least from my experience. From the case of Re L in 2000 and the evidence of Drs Sturge and Glaser, the impact of violence/abuse on children is at the forefront of the court's thinking and they take it very seriously. violent/abusive parents have to recognise what they have done and that it is a failure of parenting. They have to take steps to make reparation and take responsibility for what they have done.

I am sorry so many people seem to have such a different experience to me.

It may be the problem with the dynamic of abusive relationships that it is so difficult to make complaints or to leave so that when the allegations are finally raised in court the evidence is too weak to enable the court to make findings with confidence that either parent is abusive.

[currantbunsforeyes]

My ex has moved twice to live two minutes away from me. He swears at me. Uses our dcs to report back on me. He lied to courts that I was abusive mother and this was proven to be untrue. He wants to be rp and to use kids against me. I am in no doubt of that.

Spero your points are relevant up to a point. My point is the repeat applications. The courts have dealt with this. Why do I have to have this re examined again and again?