to feel so disheartened at the family court system

[currantbunsforeyes]

Ex has been harassing me using the courts for years. He's had prohibited steps order placed on me by making up lies that I'm a flight risk, appealed decisions, etc.... This has gone on for years until I was awarded sole res due to his ongoing harassment.

Despite this he's still taking me to court for shared res. There was a stay (prevention order) to stop him for doing this for two years but now they are up I'm back in court. The judge has asked for new hearing and agreed to ex's request to leave out old judgements from bundle! WTF!!! The old judgements shows how his harassment and constant harassing using courts led to me ending up with sole res.

I feel like there is no point, no consistency. I've been doing this now for eight years. PS I'm generous with contact. Dcs have alternate weekends and mid week overnight stays with him.

Are the family law court system that messed up?

[Spero]

I don't know is the answer. It sounds wholly unsatisfactory to say that previous judgements are not to be included in current trial papers.

A previous finding of fact stands as 'the truth' unless and until it is successfully appealed. The court now simply cannot ignore 'the truth' as found by another court.

Previous findings should definitely be in as evidence in current proceedings. It sounds like you should be making an application under section 91(14) of the Children Act to prevent him making repeat applications on spurious grounds.

there is something odd going on there. I certainly wouldn't accept a refusal to rely on previous findings and I would appeal against the decision of any judge who said that.

[currantbunsforeyes]

How would I appeal? What would be the point of law?

[Spero]

If a judge refuses to take account of previous findings which are relevant to the issues currently under review, that is simply wrong in my opinion. It is a failure to take account of relevant issues which is appealable.

I agree that isn't much comfort as most people don't have either the money or the energy to appeal, but I would very much have liked to be present at your court hearings when this was discussed, to understand what on earth was going on.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Unfortunately reading other posters accounts of the court system and my friends experiences, not all are positive, not all judges behave appropriately. With my friend, the judge did overlook the evidence in front of him, her ex lied time and time again in court, he was as was in court, nasty and abusive. The high court judge (I think it was this one) recommended supervised contact, as ex was imperveous to ds needs and was not able to put ds needs above his own. In court ex told current mysogenistic judge that he would rather not see ds, than have supervised contact, voila previous judgements were overruled, for unsupervised contact, where ex continued to sexually and emotionally abuse her ds. It has only stopped recently, because her ds is more confident to speak to SS and Police about this abuse, ex realises he cannot get away with it for very long, so has stopped turning up to contact.

For ex, contact was not about getting to know ds, and forming a relationship with him, it was about continuing his abuse of my friend and getting at her. But her experiences of the family court system and CAFCASS have been horrific.

[currantbunsforeyes]

Thanks spero. He said I could quote past rulings in my statement, referencing abuse. Is it easy to appeal in family law directions hearings?

[currantbunsforeyes]

Can I pm u spero?

[Mummybabyboo]

I had evidence of abuse in GP records and counselling records dating back 2 years before my DD was even born but they refused to even look at it. I was never given a fact finding hearing despite mentioning domestic violence in my statements and to CAFCASS.
The first application the cafcass officer actually wrote a report saying he should have only 4-6 supervised visits per year. She then wrote a brand new report without speaking to any of the parties stating standard eow. When my solicitor asked her for the reason for her change in position she actually said "my manager refused to sign for supervision as this case is not financially viable". FINANCIALLY VIABLE!!!!!! my DD's protection is too expensive and THAT is the reality. I obviously went absolutely ballistic about this but they just earned me the "hostile, emotionally unstable, lunatic" tag. They deliberately submitted statements to the court only and not is meaning I had less time to prepare my responses, they wrote almost nothing at all until their final statement when they let rip both barrels then wrote a complaint to the court saying my statement in response should be rejected as I wasn't allowed to respond to that statement. (Lol)? They lied about the ages of other grandchildren to make them closer to DD's age, again this proven PERJURY was ignored. On the final hearing we were forbidden from mentioning the abuse, only matters relating directly to DD's contact were allowed.
On the second application we had the same cafcass officer. She was livid that they had not followed her recommendation at the final hearing, that they had included DD was to come home if he was working. She also had a go at ME that HE wasn't paying maintenance (never ever had, was terrified of provoking someone I knew to be a narcissistic psychopath especially knew I know knew the courts do not protect victims). She told me it was my duty to society as I was on benefits and that tax payers were paying to raise my child and SHE was one of those taxpayers. She then wrote a report without even seeing me and DD together saying that DD scared of me and I was abusive because I could get over the relationship and should seek counselling, despite all previous reports saying what a amazing mother I was, how our relationship was amazing, how advanced DD was developmentally, that her vocabulary was outstanding for her age. All the allegations I had made against EX were made against me. Even though he had previously stated that I refused to communicate in any way shape or form, this switched to it was me that was harassing him! I can not be doing both, this was a blatant contradiction but was again ignored.
My DD now hates me and her Step-dad because he constantly bad mouths us and tells her that all our routines and boundaries are proof we don't love her. He has even told her its illegal to have two dads and she had I panic attack in tesco when she called DH dad and a policeman walked in she was utterly convinced he had come to take her away.

The courts/cafcass do not care in any way about a child's best interest, it is ALL about budgets, funding, meeting deadlines, and looking good in public statistics.
If I ignore the orders they will send DD to live with him, using her to punish me for not obeying them! The courts are guilty of child abuse!

[currantbunsforeyes]

mummy the sand thing is this scenario does not surprise me at all after what I've seen.

[Spero]

It is a constant source of sadness and surprise to me that people have such negative experiences as that is not my experience, but of course I come to it from a very different perspective and perhaps with a more realistic (and cynical) view about what the court can achieve.

Of course resources are a massive, massive problem. Many of my cases would have had much happier endings if the court had been persuaded to appoint a guardian, if that guardian had been paid to help with weekend contact handovers etc, etc, if therapy and counselling was available immediately without a six month waiting list.

I am sorry that people have had such horrible experiences. But I don't think the court deliberately sets out to alienate and traumatise people. We have the perfect storm of lack of resources, lack of legal aid and over stretched courts. Of course the system suffers.

Op, I am happy for you to pm me but of course I can't give specific legal advice without being properly instructed and having all paperwork etc. But I am happy to offer general information or signpost you to other sources.

On a general point, no its not easy to appeal and I only recommend it when I feel very strongly that a judge has got it wrong. Refusing to allow previous relevant findings as evidence would be one of those occasions.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Yes then my friend most certainly could appeal, but at the moment he is not showing for contact, and she does not want to ruffle any feathers, in case ex rears his ugly head again. My friends barrister told me that her particular judge was sent away for misconduct, but was wheeled back into the system, like with any profession, it is subject to incompetent professionals.

[Aeroflotgirl]

Doh my friends barrister told her, not me.

[Mummybabyboo]

I do appreciate that it happens to dads too, that there are some truly outstanding fathers out there, who have raised their children, nurtured their children, protected and provided for them that end up with a pathetic EOW/shared holidays. When they should be having shared care and even residence.
Simply changing wording to resident parent / non resident parent has not at all ended gender biased, simply covers it up better.
There should be no presumption of contact or standard contact. It should be 100% based on the individual case.
A club DJ who works overnight weekends should not have weekend contact just because it's standard, then pass a child around to anyone and everyone just so long as it not bio mum out of spite. It's absurd for that to be allowed. Yes the magistrates did put into the order that DD was to come home if he worked but he never abided by that. Blatantly harassed me (92 emails in 10 months) despite having a final order that i was 100% abiding by but he didn't like, who can seriously say that's not harassment. I even asked him to stop harassing me in 3 of them but the cafcass officer wrote that I was the one harassing him without one single shred of evidence even ex's own statement said that I refuse to communicate with him, contradicting this supposed harassment. It truly is astonishing.
Then cafcas wrote a report saying that he should have his contact and it is his right to use childcare as he sees fit, that we are both single parents and that i would not be prevented from using sitters and childcare so neither should he! How is that not absolute proof that this is a battle of parents rights and tit for tat. I absolutely 100% disagree. A. child should never ever be removed from an available and willing parent so that an unavailable parent can pass them around like a piece of meat. It's clearly vindictive behaviour. I had never once used any childcare either and absolutely believe that only when neither parent was available should other childcare be used. I have even given him first refusal on the 1st night I was going out, he refused to have her and then blocked my car in its space with his when he realised I was going on a date. He now uses the fact that I offered him an midweek stay with his daughter AGAINST me, saying that I didn't gove him notice so he doesn't have to give me notice for school holiday dates. I'm not asking for notice of when I will HAVE my DD, I expect to have her each and every single day, I'm asking for notice of when I will NOT be having her, there is a big difference.
How is it in DD's best interests to in fact see BOTH her parents LESS. than spend that time with her resident parent? Just so non-resident parent gets that standard contact!
The sad reality is that for a case to end up in court, either one parent or the other (sometimes even both) are the problem and I would say it is far more 50-50 than anyone cares to admit. This belief that all fathers want the best and all mothers are evil and bitter is so very far from the truth. Contact is not always in a child best interest! There is no such thing as beneficial child abuse.

[Aeroflotgirl]

I totally agree mummy my friend is going through similar to what your going through with her ds who is also 6. Its awful that he can choose to stop contact and the decisions fall to him, but if she withdraws contact due to her ds being sexually and emotionally abused, she can end up in prison and residence reversal, which would be devastating for the child as her ds cannot stand his dad and it would totally damage him. Like you, she had a bad CAFCASS officer who acted more in the ex best interests, than the child, she hardly knew her ds or made an effort to get to know him. She was very unprofessional and dangerous at times.

[HeadDoctor]

This belief that all fathers want the best and all mothers are evil and bitter is so very far from the truth.

Who holds that belief? I honestly don't think anyone does and if they do they're deluded.

[bibliomania]

You have my sincere sympathy, OP. It's awful to have an ex who enjoys the court battle. Mine thought he was Erin Brokovich without the tits.

[Spero]

Nobody I have ever met in the court system thinks 'all mothers' are this and 'all fathers' are that.

Sadly for anyone with more than a passing acquaintance with the system knows that vindictive, petty, unreasonable behaviour is seen in both mothers and fathers.

[Aeroflotgirl]

I understand that Spero, I am not a legal professional, just have my friends experience and others on here.

[HardToDanceWithTheDevilOnYourB]

The law says it - contact is almost always in the best interest of the child! The presumption of contact as a starting point. Anything outside of standard eow require extra hearings/reports and extra MONEY. But to simply order that is straightforward and easy.
We can sit here and start the resident parent this, non resident parent that but reality, it's mothers that oppose contact and fathers that seeks it in the vast majority. The shear fact that the court boast the % of cases that result in contact shows that dads almost always get it. Mothers are always considered to be hostile to contact and there is never considered to be a good reason to protect children from abusive fathers.
If they were to boast that 50% of cases achieved contact and 50% protected children from abusive non resident parents then yes I would say that mothers were taken seriously and not scapegoats as the problem. But it's not even close. Contact with abusive father can be extremely damaging. My daughter self harms at 6 years old because of court ordered contact with a psychopath. I have experienced many many people in my 5 years in and out of court, even my own solicitor told me the abuse is irrelevant. He said it's not a criminal case, it's a family matter and they are entirely separate matters. He said word for word "the court take the view that DD should not be punished for her father's behaviour"
I've spent a lot of time in the women's refuge and doing the freedom programme and I assure you this is not a rare situation.
I even have a male friend who struggles severely with drugs due to a severely abusive childhood, he has been in prison 3 times for petty crimes, constant shoplifting and assaults, he came from court one day devastated that he had been order to do drugs tests and they had tested POSITIVE for cocaine and ecstasy, he was STILL given eow even though we all believed he would not get it, even he did. The mother did a runner to try protect her daughter and LOST CUSTODY, his mother (parental grandmother) was given temporary custody and still has it. I cut ties, I couldn't believe he followed it through. But even worse I couldn't believe the courts allowed it.
I am constantly told that it's EX's right to parent DD as he sees fit and its none of my business, but then chastised when I didn't notify him of her change in GP, told I was irresponsible, trying to exclude him, not thinking of DD, he has never in his life taken her, I moved out of catchment and had no choice and the GP surgery is next door to my damn house it's not like I registered her somewhere obscure. But he can get a passport for her and keep it a secret for 6 months and try and take her out the country and that's his right?
He can allow her to bath and share a bed with an unrelated male child, encourages them to kiss all night and tell everyone they are marrying when they are older because they are in love, I then have to deal with her running around the school playground asking boys into her bed and asking them to kiss her all night long, asking to bath with them, it's horrifying and embarrassing and DANGEROUS but if I tell her not to that it's not appropriate, im accused of badmouthing him and his parenting and told that's abuse.
anyone who thinks that mothers aren't scapegoats are the one's in denial im afraid.
I've even met mothers who were beaten to a pulp by fathers and told to leave by social services or be charged with failure to protect then have residence reversed to dad because they wouldn't send the children to contact. Sometimes mothers can do no right and it happens far far more than people will admit.
I already stated that it is equal between mothers and fathers I do absolutely agree with that. But the fact that contact happens almost every time proves that mothers are rarely taken seriously.

[Aeroflotgirl]

hardtodance I am , I really really am. This is absolutely disgusting, in your case, like my friends, the courts are helping to continue this abuse of your poor dd . They are wrecking her life . Contact for whose benefit, certainly not your dd. Yes she is being punished for her father's behaviour, they are punishing her making her have contact with an abusive individual!

[Spero]

I don't have statistics to hand but I know Families Need Fathers would not agree that contact is almost always awarded to fathers. And nor is that my experience.

I thank it would be helpful to find out statistically what proportion of contact applications succeed where there are allegations of violence or abuse. Then we have a clear handle on what we are discussing.

I don't doubt that people have horrific individual experiences - the have described them here - but I am wary of extrapolating from that to an entire system.

[HardToDanceWithTheDevilOnYourB]

My case wouldn't be considered to involve domestic violence, they refused a fact finding hearing, refused to look at my evidence, brushed all the domestic violence under the carpet and forbid me and my barrister to even speak of it in the final hearing. Yet It absolutely is a case where an abusive father achieved very damaging contact.

[HardToDanceWithTheDevilOnYourB]

Fnf do acknowledge that contact is almost always awarded, it's that they believe shared parenting should be automatic and that eow/shared holidays aren't enough. Enforcement is also a huge issue for this who refuse to abide by orders. But contact is almost always awarded.

[HardToDanceWithTheDevilOnYourB]

Even in the most brutal and horrific abuse cases and I am talking attempted murders, father slashing mums throat infront of kids etc. orders of indirect contact in letters/cards, school reports etc are made.

[Aeroflotgirl]

I know hard Natalie Allmans case springs to mind, it was in the media. The courts even funded his legal aid, wheras she had to fund her own legal costs, disgusting. I bet when her ex comes out of prison for nearly killing her in front of her children, he will push sh for supervised contact, and probably get it, despite causing considerable trauma to his Kids and nearly killing their mum. Absolutely disgusting .

[HardToDanceWithTheDevilOnYourB]

He absolutely will get it and I bet it only starts out as supervised!

I completely gave up on hope. When I read about a 14 year old be being sent to a youth offenders centre for refusing to go on contact with a man who had sexually abused him and made him watch while he raped him mum.

Another case where an 8 year old was sent to live with a man he had never met because mum refused to allow any contact and later hung himself.