To ask why so many "vegetarians" eat fish?

[Housewife2010]

I think I may now describe myself as a vegetarian who eats meat! I don't eat any shellfish or much fish so surely it all evens out!

To paraphrase someone, somewhere, a few days ago (details are hazy, but the message stuck with me) people really should think twice before describing vegetarianism as a first world problem in an attempt at an arrogant put down of people's dietary choices because, well, India, for a start.

I thought that, ouryve. A goodly proportion of the world's one billion Hindus and 23 million Sikhs follow a vegetarian diet.

I just say I don't eat meat, if I get asked if I'm vegetarian, I tend to say that I eat fish. I have noticed that pescatarian has become more widely used now than it was 10 or so years ago.

I eat some meat and fish but I often say to someone "pick a vegetarian option for me" if they're choosing a curry or sandwiches for a group. Menus usually have conveniently labelled veggie dishes but no dishes labelled "no pork or shellfish but might have chicken or white fish" and I don't mind missing out on something else I could eat just to keep thing simple.

I think some people do take away from that the idea that I'm vegetarian even though most of my friends know that I'm only saying that because it's easier, and I do actually eat some meat and fish.

Even when I try to be more specific it doesn't always work though. I generally put 'doesn't eat meat' on forms for my ds but that was interpreted as 'vegetarian' by other people, NOT me. A teacher told him that he couldn't eat fish options like fishfingers because "you're a vegetarian".

He ended up very confused at home asking me if he was a vegetarian or not even though I'd been very careful not to put that on the form, just that he didn't eat meat.

So it's not necessarily the pescatarian themselves calling themselves vegetarian, sometimes it's other people who don't get it.

My parents don't eat meat. It's easier for them and their friends and restaurants and everything if they ask for a vegetarian option. They mostly eat vegetarian anyway and would always be happy with a veggie meal.

They do eat fish and shell fish though they try to avoid farmed fish. Their issues are with animal husbandry and farming not with the concept of eating a living thing.

I once told a (very lovely) friend/acquaintance we were pescatarians before going round to her house for lunch.
She said "oh, does that mean you only eat fish?". I said yes.

When we turned up, she had taken that quite literally and had laid out a table with 5 different kinds of fish/seafood (tuna mayo, smoked salmon, prawns, cod fillets and sardines) and literally nothing else at all. I think she thought we were morally opposed to anything at all except fish. Why she still invited us round is beyond me, and definitely testament to her good character.

Anyway, the word pescatarian is not widely known [wanders off irrelevantly]

Vegetarian describes 95% + of my eating habits (eat fish occasionally)

But that's a relatively recent change

I need to decide which way I want to go, stay vegetarian and stop eating fish

Or say I am a pescatarian (albeit part time)

As anyone who eats fish or poultry should not be calling themselves vegetarian

When I became a vegetarian it was because I didn't like the idea of eating anything that had a face

Nowadays, many years later, I would never eat meat or poultry again but that's because it's a bit too close to the human form...

My DP (who is veggie) will say he doesn't eat fish and then gets 'Oh, so you're a Vegan?'

But then those people are thick

Living the pescatarian being fed a meal entirely made of fish

Loving not living - darned autocorrect.

A lot of people don't know the term 'pescetarian' so it makes it easier for them to say "I'm vegetarian but I eat fish." They're not vegetarian at all but it's simpler than being met with the face when they say they're pesce. My DGM has been pescetarian her whole adult life but even she didn't know the term pescetarian, she only found out when I told her that's what she is .

I'm vegan now, was vegetarian for a few years previously and also used to be pescetarian as a teen. I used to describe myself as 'meat free' when I was pesce to make it easier but a few people would say "oh so you're vegetarian" no, I eat fish. You could just see the confusion wash over them . I find a lot of people don't even know what vegan is tbh.

This has caused a problem for me in restaurants. I have been to restaurants where there isn't anything vegetarian on the menu but the staff are happy to make something suitable. Often they will ask what you'd like or offer a few options or even ask if you eat fish but I have been in the situation where they have just said they'd be able to make something, no problem, and have reappeared with a plate of fish. I'm not fussy and will eat absolutely anything as long as it's vegetarian.

And some restaurants have a symbol next to some meals on the menu showing that they can be made vegetarian if required, but not explaining exactly how. If you ask for further details it often turns out that they're going to add fish instead of meat.

I can only assume that they think that vegetarians eat fish because of people that they know describing themselves as vegetarians when they aren't. We have friends who call themselves vegetarians when they are pescetarians.

In the nicest possible way if you're going to go through all the trouble of 'labling' yourself pick the correct lable and not the most convenient almost fit.

If you tell me you're a vegetarian but eat fish i'll think you're daft and explain why you can't eat fish if you are actually a vegetarian. I won't cook fish or any other meat for a true veggie and always offer something nice not just what we're having minus the meat.

I know a fair few fish eating vegetarians. They're affectionately known as 'fake' vegetarians :-)

There is a long tradition of vegetarianism in India, of course. There is a history of Buddhist vegetarianism (though not all Buddhists are vegetarian, the Dalai Lama is not, for example). Obviously, neither Hinduism nor Buddhism is confined to first world countries.

It comes down to the question: is fish meat? That's not quite as obvious as it sounds. If you say it is, the Catholic and Jewish dietary traditions would disagree with you. Fish is parve (neither milk nor meat) under the system of kosher laws (so are eggs, incidentally, but chicken is meat). Fish doesn't have to have the blood removed from it to be kosher, the way poultry and red meat do. I know Catholics will eat fish on days when they would not eat meat.

I'm Jewish and keep kosher. I will eat vegetarian meals or fish in non-kosher restaurants (but no shellfish). I will only eat kosher certified chicken or red meat, which rules out eating those things in a non-kosher restaurant.

I'm not sure how Hindus or Buddhists classify fish with respect to their dietary restrictions (and I know there is no central authority for either Hinduism or Buddhism, so the answer is probably "it varies").

Do people generally think that "I don't eat meat" means they don't eat pork/lamb/beef/chicken but they DO eat fish?

To me, "I don't eat meat" means I don't eat anything that has come from an animal, which includes fish/shellfish etc as well as pork/lamb/beef/chicken.

DamFineBeaver your friend sounds ADORABLE, and much more accommodating that most other people would be. She must like you very much! Did you, ah, tell her?

My daughter eats fish because I refuse to provide fully veggie meals, it's too restricting (I also have a hungry preteen DS who likes meat) and she's not that big a fan of most cheese and pulses. She can't live off chick peas.

She doesn't say she is vegetarian though she just tells people she doesn't eat meat. Her main motivation is environmental and health, animal welfare is a concern for her but it's secondary.

Because there are a lot of stupid pescetarians around.

I am veggie and strictly so. I have had times when I am going to the home of a newish aquaintance and will warn them in advance. Most will ask if I eat fish, and I just say no. Short conversation, no problem. All these fish-eating veggies out there have not caused me any hassle, and I have never had a UK hospital or restaurant or caterer confuse 'vegetarian' with fish. I do live in London, so maybe people here are clued up.

I am thrilled that so many people have changed their eating habits and make an effort to eat less meat, or only chicken a couple times per week, or fish twice a week. I don't care what they call themselves - I applaud their effort and respect their boundaries. They are making an impact on an important global problem by cutting their consumption. I don't mind 'veggies' who eat the odd bacon sarnie, either, or gelatine. It's their call and they are doing more than the vast majority of the population.

I know what I eat and have no problem explaining it politely. I do not demand veggie perfection in others.

Ethically, why do people eat fish?

I think because generally they're not cute or cuddly like some meat animals.

You don't see other animals gutted and laid out whole in the supermarket (bit impractical for a start).

You probably wouldn't look twice at a photo on Facebook of a smiling 11 year old holding a dead fish he'd caught.

If it was a piglet or lamb you probably would.

I have only once in many years been offered fish when I asked about veggie options. Not a widespread problem.

I think any reduction in consumption of heavily farmed animal products whether meat, fish or dairy can only be a good thing and we should be acknowledging that rather than looking at ways to criticise.

Xpost with base9 who puts it v well.

geeky

Gosh that's a good thought...and would explain why my catholic mother told me that fish didn't count

My dad still remembers me coming back from mass and telling him very earnestly that " daddy, today at church we were cannibals"

culture

If someone said that they didn't eat meat I would ask them if they ate fish. Actually on a lot of menus fish is separate to the "meat" and sometimes "poultry" is too

I've very rarely had problems in restaurants over the last 10 years or so, it's become a lot more mainstream and most places make an effort to get it right

Although the other day mayonnaise was vegi but garlic mayonnaise wasn't??? Don't get that

base9

Brilliantly put

And work

I've been a vegetarian for a long time so this is not my area of expertise at all, but if fish /= meat and poultry /= meat, then what do people think they actually are, if not meat? I find this genuinely confusing.