To ask why so many "vegetarians" eat fish?

[Housewife2010]

I think I may now describe myself as a vegetarian who eats meat! I don't eat any shellfish or much fish so surely it all evens out!

In 13 years of being vegetarian it really hasn't been a struggle getting fed non-fishy foods because of all the pescetarians. There has been the occasional 'do you eat fish?', to which I would just answer 'no', and that was fine. I found the meals that were almost vegetarian more frustrating - reading on a menu about a delicious mushroom stuffed with garlic and cheese, topped with breadcrumbs... and a sprinkling of BACON

I've also never had a problem asking in restaurants if certain cheeses/deserts are vegetarian. A lot of the time you can see on menus whether they are or not (for example a cheese pizza without a 'v' shows they are not incorrectly counting rennet containing cheese as vegetarian and you can relax and trust the menu).

Really vegetarians have it pretty easy in England, and the vast majority of people understand what it means. Obviously the times when it goes wrong as a vegetarian stick in your mind a lot longer and more vividly than the times that it runs smoothly! Also plane food if a nightmare. But day-to-day life is just not that affected those that eat fish, even if they do incorrectly label themselves vegetarian.

so I usually just say I'm vegetarian so they get the general idea.

When I'm out I say I'm vegetarian to make it easier*

alternative- can't you see the problem?

I am not criticising these last two posters, but the situation is confusing.

If you call yourself a vegetarian but eat fish you're using the wrong terminology. True vegetarians do not eat or eat slaughter by-products, so that means no cheese with rennet, no wine or beer filtered with gelatin or isinglass and not wearing leather, suede or proper silk (produced by boiling silk worms alive for unbroken threads).

It is annoying, and confusing. As a lapsed vegetarian myself (I started eating fish etc about 10 years ago) I still find it annoying. Animals aren't vegetables! You can't be a vegetarian and eat any kind of animal flesh ffs!

Because there is a lot of really thick people out there who don't know the difference between a fish and a vegetable.

I had a friend who got a first at university the following year who asked seriously whether penguins were fish.

Yes really.

Can I ask a question of any posters who don't eat meat for ethical reasons but do eat fish?

I have a friend who does this, and I've always wanted to ask about it but she's a bit touchy of on the topic so I've not raised it with her

But I was under the impression that a lot of fish and seafood stocks are severely under pressure and are far less sustainable than animal stocks, and that a lot of fishing causes a lot of harm (i.e. catching other fish than the ones you want etc)

So I've always been slightly confused by people who won't eat meat for ethical reasons, but will eat fish, as it seems to me that fishing is less sustainable than raising animals for food. Or have I got that completely wrong?

(Genuine question by the way, and not meaning to start any sort of bun fight)

If you feed a vegetarian prawn cocktail or chicken in this country, you are stupid. I don't think this has anything to do with pescatarians calling themselves vegetarian.

Never quite sure I understand ethical vegatarians who are still happy to drink milk and therefore supporting the veal industry though...............

Oh, that's a first world problem, full. I wouldn't worry yourself about it.

Some pescatarians don't eat gelatine/goose fat etc.

Agree with others - vegetarians don't eat fish. Pescatarian isn't a widely known word outside of MN :)

Discopanda -what does wearing leather/suede have to do with being vegetarian? It's not compulsory to not use animal by-products because you choose not to eat meat.

Thurlow - you can get sustainably sourced fish and fish caught with pole and line so you aren't catching other animals in the nets :)

He he I'm enjoying the banter

Thurlow that's precisely what i was wondering. i have a frined the same who can bang on for hours about her feelings about animals / farming / slaughter etc, which is fine and i totally respect that decision, but fish are farmed just as intensively, with just as much intervention and then hoiked out and left to suffocate or be electrocuted. i can't see it's any less 'cruel'

Ah…Mumsnet. I saw two threads yesterday which mentioned being vegetarian-who-eat-fish and was waiting for a thread.

I don't eat certain meats or fish, for various reasons, but it's my personal views that dictate it, I haven't bothered labelling it, and I just say 'not thanks' if I don't want something.

I've been vegetarian (though not now), my sister has been vegetarian for decades, my best friend is vegan. Most of my nephews and nieces are vegetarian. Another friend is a pescatarian.

Those who feel that certain aspects of being vegetarian need 'pointing out' '...but why are you wearing leather shoes then if you're a vegetarian?' should remember that people avoid foods and food group for all kinds of reasons.

It can't all be shoved neatly into labelled boxes, I'm afraid.

I don't understand the argument about being offered fish as a vegetarian option in restaurants - if someone goes to a restaurant and orders fish, how would the staff know that person would describe themselves as a vegetarian? You would only need to tell them if you didn't eat fish, surely, in which case they would be perfectly clear that vegetarians don't eat fish.

To be fair, I have never seen fish listed as a vegetarian option on a menu, but when this debate comes up people seem to insist that it does, and that the fact that it does can definitely be attributed to pescetarians, but I have never really understood how.

bumbley, ah - that makes sense (though am still confused by my friend buying normal tinned tuna from Sainsburys but then banging on about the ethics of killing animals )

I suppose I struggle a bit with the idea that if you are opposed to not eating anything that was alive at some point, or eating flesh, some people see a difference between fish and meat.

Though of course I'm sure my personal struggle is what really matters to some people

As a side note, those that are really interested in where food comes from and subjects like sustainability and the science behind some if the food that is produced should watch Food Unwrapped on Channel 4. It's compelling and quite scary all at the same time.

One example is the proliferation of cheap bananas on the market which is predominantly one strain which is now under attack by a disease that is wiping out most of the plantations. In the future we are going to see bananas sky rocket in price unless they can solve the disease or change the type of banana that is grown. Rice is also much more expensive because India decided to stop selling it's stocks and keep them to feed it's people. The stock market had a heart attack and the price soared. Even though I think rice stick is still plentiful the price has stayed high as it's unstable.

It really wouldn't take much to suddenly find the supermarket shelves bare and is being grateful to eat anything at all.

I am just surprised that some people are SO invested in what others bloody eat. Has anyone handed out some grips yet?

Thurlow - maybe she's buying pole and line caught tuna? They do have it in Sainsburys. Although, it's still killed tuna! :) maybe she doesn't think fish are animals?

fulltothebrim why is it confusing? It's not a law. People can have their own food preferences. There's lots of people that eat meat but hate fish, but no one seems to have a problem with that. People just don't fit into neat little boxes.
If you're cooking for someone who describes themselves as vegetarian then surely you'd just ask them first. As far as restaurants go, I think they should adhere to the 'official' definition of vegetarian /vegan/pescetarian. That way everyone knows where they stand.

I used to own a restaurant that made special meals for vegetarians and allergies if there wasn't something on the menu they liked. We loved doing it as people, whatever their dietary requirements, could enjoy their meal and have something they wanted. So many people call themselves vegetarian when they aren't. It even got to the point where the staff would ask when people said they were vegetarian. And a few vegetarians complained that satff should know what a vegetarian is. I had to explain that we had so many people who used the term vegetarian, but ate fish.

Its bloody confusing!

And yes my sil actually classes herself as vegan even though she eats non vegan cake, honey and drinks milk. She had a coffee at ours and I gave it black as we don't use almond/ soy milk. Her face was a picture. When I said 'but I thought you were vegan now' her response was 'well I still drink milk'. I was baffled.

People can what what they like.

Why they eat/don't eat it matters less and less. But we do, as society, accord a certain respect which isn't uniformly applied.

For instance why do, we and we most of us would, accommodate the woo-based preferences of Jews/Muslims/Hindus/ Catholics on Fridays? Or the imperfectly thought-out semi-fish/ chicken isn't really meat veggies?

Yet so many balk at the "fussy".

Objectively no difference that I can see except that the religiously-based objections are sanctified by time and custom.

So badly punctuated.