To ask why so many "vegetarians" eat fish?

[Housewife2010]

I think I may now describe myself as a vegetarian who eats meat! I don't eat any shellfish or much fish so surely it all evens out!

And a quick google just found this

People may ask for vegetarian food for all sorts of reasons or call themselves vegetarians if they like. I don't see it's any of your business

Anyone can do anything if they like. Usually people who lie are called liars. I am allowed an opinion on this matter, particularly when their stupidity and lies have an impact on the general understanding of the definition which then impacts those who actually don't eat meat or fish.

I'm not talking about people who ask for vegetarian food. Far from it. it's the ones who say 'I'm a vegetarian so can you make me a tuna sandwich please'.

SuburbanRhonda

I've never seen that myself, but would expect it was as a result of the menu writers not really thinking it through rather than because of the issues raised here. I imagine the thought process goes 'no pieces of meat in a dish=vegetarian' rather than 'the person who came in the other day said they were a vegetarian and then ate this, so all vegetarians must eat fish'.

As I said before, I don't understand why someone would even mention that they were a vegetarian to restaurant staff if they were planning to eat a fish dish as it would surely only come up if you wanted to check that there was no flesh in any given dish.

It's not usually that way round, DoJo.

I've phoned restaurants and asked whether they cater for vegetarians and usually the first question is, "Do you eat fish?"

When I say, no, I'm vegetarian the next sentence is normally, "Well, we could do you the [insert meat or fish based dish] without the [meat or fish]. Yeah, sounds real special, that one.

Almost as good as "vegetarian option available". Always makes my mouth water

Vegetarians catered for.

Yeah, that one always works. Basically, we will get whatever veg we may have lying around going mouldy out the fridge and bung it in a frozen tart and bang cheese and egg on top and charge you the same as a steak. Yummy.

Part of this is cultural though.

In China and many other Asian countries oysters, and oyster sauce is considered vegetarian. As are other ingredients, fish sauce, dried or fermented shrimp.

To suggest it is a UK vegetarian "liar" who has blurred the issue is quite insulting.

Don't go then tentacles.

Or even better, alternative, grilled sea bass on a bed of pea risotto becomes pea risotto for the vegetarians! I've actually had that. Thank goodness for the bar of chocolate I always carry in my handbag!

Don't go then tentacles.

I don't. I tend to give my money to people who can cook properly.

My pea risotto was at a lunch for a family member's big birthday. Couldn't really not go just because the chef had no imagination.

We live in a popular village with several pubs that people come from far and wide to eat in.

The most popular is run by a chef that 'trained under Gary Rhodes'.

For 8 years now the only veggie 'option' is vegetable tart. Including with a roast dinner. Same fucking tart! At least it is actually veggie though, I'll give him that.

Let me guess, alternative.

Does it contain goats' cheese?

I met an Australian once who claims to be a "vegetarian" but said he eats "chicken" and "fish"! WTF? Since when has a chicken not been meat?

I'm probably going to get flamed for this but vegetarian/vegan is not a broad description of what you roughly eat, it is a very specific description with specific "rules". I know that for many people it is an life style choice but it is sortof the same of all these people saying they have an allergy or intolerance, when actually they just don't like things.

If you don't meet the specifications of the description then dont use it, it just ends up confusing for everybody.

If you don't meet the specifications of the description then dont use it, it just ends up confusing for everybody.

No flaming here.

Does it contain goats' cheese?

Natch.

It seems that that oyster sauce/seafood classification as "vegetarian" is based on the definition by some Chinese Buddhists of oysters and some shellfish as not being animals/meat. This is clearly a cultural difference, but it is a religious/cultural interpretation - much like the previous mention of Catholicism defining fish as not meat.

So it seems that some people really do define fish and other things as being "not meat" and so vegetarian. I don't believe that this is the same phenomenon as a culturally British person stating they are vegetarian and then ordering chicken or whatever.

Either way, the Vegetarian Society in the UK define being a vegetarian as not eating meat (which includes fish/chicken/seafood - any animal), or products that are from a slaughtered animal. That's the definition that applies to me, and so it looks like I will need to continue to explain that this doesn't include fish, seafood, chicken....... Annoying but apparently necessary!

RE oyster sauce- I was throwing some light on suburban's criticism of the fact that oyster suace dishes often appear on the menu in Chinese restaurants.

I don't really think this is widespread in the UK outside of the chinese/Asian community.

I don't eat meat but I eat fish. I don't call myself vegetarian - I say I don't eat meat. I feel daft saying pescetarian - people look at my strange when I have tried to!

However, there are times when out, it is simply easier to say vegetarian, such as at some restaurants.

Perhaps because oyster sauce isn't used much in other dishes?

And I gave that example because someone said upthread that no-one had given any examples of fish-based meals being labelled as vegetarian.

So the poster then dismissed it as an example because (a) they'd never seen that themselves and (b) it was for cultural reasons

So the poster then dismissed it as an example because (a) they'd never seen that themselves and (b) it was for cultural reasons

If you're referring to me, then I did neither - I said I had never seen it (and I even checked local Chinese restaurants near here - one had 'vegetable' dishes, but didn't label them as vegetarian, and one had 'vegetarian' dishes which were all tofu based and no mention of oyster sauce or other fish based ingredients), but I didn't dismiss your assertion that you had found it to be true. I never mentioned a cultural issue, just said that I thought it would be unlikely to be as a result of confusion over 'vegetarians' eating fish so much as a lack of thought about the entire contents of a dish rather than the fact that the main ingredients were vegetables. In the same way that I have been told that I can have a 'vegetarian' roast dinner even though the potatoes were cooked in beef dripping - I don't think it was because the person actually thought that beef didn't count, just that when they ran through the meal in their head, they didn't see 'meat' in it and didn't really consider the cooking method.

I'm not denying that this happens, just saying that it is nowhere near my experience of being either vegetarian or pescetarian - perhaps I'm lucky, but I appreciate that your experiences inform your views on the matter just as mine inform my own. These days I'm much more concerned about places like the fish and chip shop which claimed all their dishes were nut-free but cooked EVERYTHING in groundnut oil - maybe it's just that my focus has changed significantly since the time when I had the luxury of choosing what I cut out of my diet.

I agree with dojo

Sorry, dojo, you're right, it was another poster who brought up the cultural issue

Sorry should clarify that it's was dojos post at 17.41 I was agreeing with

Not that I disagree with her second one just that I really, really agreed with the earlier one

The issue I have with restaurants/pubs not understanding the real definition of vegetarian is that I end up having to quiz them about what they are offering - is the cheese they use vegetarian, have they used meat stock in the soup, have they cooked the fries with the fish, have they actually used vegetable oil and not lard, have they cooked the veggie burgers next to the meat burgers ....

Asking those questions makes me sound picky, but I shouldn't have to if the vegetarian option is actually vegetarian. I guess it's only the "proper" vegetarians who will actually understand just how demoralising this is.

My family manage to cope with me being vegetarian, it really isn't rocket science, a professional kitchen should be able to as well.

Isitjustme- but lots of vegetarians don't care about these things. They are much looser in their definition- they will happily eat non vegetarian cheese, don't care if their veggie burgers are cooked on the same grill as meat, in fact they would rather not know.

Npw the purists may argue that these are not "real vegetarians" but in my experience they are a sizable ( possibly majority) of vegetarians.
People are "vegetarian" for many reasons. Health, ethical, aesthetic, moral, environmental and more.

If your standards are so "high" then it's probaby best to stick to vegetarian only restaurants.