AIBM to not let ds2 4 wear his Elsa dress out anymore due to twattish sniggering parents

[NellysKnickers]

Ds2s hero is Elsa. He loves her and Frozen. He also loves mud, dinosaurs, trains and his bike. He wore his Elsa dress to pick up ds1 from school today. I'm shocked by the amount of parents giggling and pointing, I expected a bit from kids who dont know any better but adults? ?? I'm torn between being upset and wanting to pinch them in the face ( obviously I would never do this in reality) Why is it that people think it's ok to laugh at someone a little bit different, Dh just says they are a bit thick!

Again, how does she know without challenging them that they were gigging and pointing at her son maliciously? To my mind she was just assuming that they were.

And if they were, she should've challenged them because if I saw anyone teasing my kids or saying nasty shit to them they'd be ripped a new one.

My dds have worn all manor of fancy dresses, none of Frozen ones as I've never seen then cheap enough to buy anywhere. If we've gone anywhere further than the garden they've changed into either a more practical dress or jeans/leggings whatever.

And I've forgotten what else it was I was going to say!

I think it doesn't matter whether I as an adult see the films as good, or the characters as good role models has nothing to do with it really, as people keep saying, it is coming from the child, not the parent.

I haven't seen Frozen. I haven't bought the DVD. We've heard the song on the radio, and seen girls in the dresses, so DS is interested in it. We've got a bag of hand me down dressing up clothes that includes a dress.

I don't particularly relish the idea of my dd getting into all the princess stuff, no, but no doubt she will, and it is harmless, she will only be little and have enough other influences and education from me to allow her to 'try it on for size' before she embraces or rejects it. Same with pirates, firemen etc. What's wrong with allowing little boys the same freedom in their childhood?

What's interesting, homeishappiness, is that you were made to feel self-conscious and uncomfortable by your parents encouraging something against your wishes, but you don't see that you're imposing the same constraints on your children to choose, in the opposite way.

I often see kids out and about in fancy dress, kids of both genders and in outfits of all types / styles, inc boys wearing dresses / fairy tutus etc; I love it, brightens my day and I generally smile at the sight and often compliment them on how great and fun their outfit looks.

Kids are kids first and foremost, not male kids and female kids, and should be allowed to play at whatever make believe they want too, school / society / judgemental idiots like many on here, will squash their imaginative play soon enough, I'm certainly not going to be the first to do that when they are still only 4!

As often reading mumsnet,and I do a lot,I find a parallel universe where squads of school age boys dress as Elsa and squads of girls detest pink and Claire's crap and dress in
Spider mans outfits.

And no child gets teased and no adults snigger even behind closed doors.

The fluffy rainbow world of north London mumsnet I think.

I would've been happy to let my dds wear a super/spiderman outfit if that's what they wanted. I would've made them change if we'd have gone out just I would've if they'd been wearing a princess dress or whatever.

Wearing those kinds of clothes provokes stares, possibly comments negative or otherwise.

Of course I would, if he wanted to. He's done the school run dressed as Sully from Monsters Inc before now. I think the difference might be that on our school run I know everyone I see, and they know us. He dresses up at nursery with scant regard to gender conventions as well. DD on the other hand is obsessed with pink and has very strong ideas about appropriate clothing, but yesterday she went to the park in her pyjamas because she wanted to. No big deal, she was decently covered and quite comfortable. I imagine at seven or eight she won't want to do that, but at five she doesn't care what other people think.

Maybe it's just because I live somewhere with a lot of small children, but no, I wouldn't say a child in a superhero costume or other dressing up stuff would "provoke stares" and possibly "negative comments" (DEAR GOD WHAT IS IT IT IS NOT DRESSED AS A NORMAL CHILD BURN IT). Maybe a bit of non-mocking amusement ("aww, how cute, (s)he is dressed up as a ..." versus "HA HA HA LOOK WHAT THAT STUPID CHILD IS WEARING"), that's about it.

One of my DS1's female friends has been known to go out in a superhero cape that she made herself out of an apron...

Pyjamas, I'm not sure the 'fluffy rainbow world of north London mumsnet' exists, but if it's a world where adults don't laugh and point at what a four-year-old child is wearing, then it can't come soon enough IMO.

If he wants to wear it then let him.
When he has had enough of it he won't wear it anymore.
you can't stop people from sniggering though its normal when a boy is wearing a dress. Maybe not right or politically correct, but what people do.
Its good in a way because this is when people either conform to social norms or say fuck you, I'm doing this because I want to.

Also people seem to be saying that if you think it's ok for one little boy to want to wear a princess dress than you think all little boys should wear princess dresses and no little girls should, which is clearly bollocks. Also whether or not you think small boys should be allowed to dress up as whatever they want doesn't mean you love, hate, or even have particularly strong opinions about Disney girlie characters ("Ha, you are clearly a hypocrite if you think boys should be allowed to wear Elsa costumes but have ever in any way questioned the pinkification of girl's toys SEE I'VE GOT YOU QED").

Certainly round our way we have a fair contingent of small girls in girly dressing up, at least one small girl obsessed with superheroes (the abovementioned child who made her own cape), some superhero obsessed small boys, and my eldest son who likes superheroes but made me make him a T-rex costume for Hallowe'en.

The fluffy rainbow world of north London mumsnet I think

Well about 300 miles north.....

But DD has a friend who wears a tutu to parties (he's a boy) and she likes to dress as Captain Hook. And no-one cares

I'm not in north London either.

Does anybody here actually think that gender stereotyping makes the world a better place?

Is it better that boys and girls life choices are limited by society norms associated with their gender?

Is it better that women are paid less, considered less competent and promoted less when they do exactly the same standard of job as men?

When something like this comes up you have a straight choice.

A) Support the person allowing their child to express themselves as they wish too

B) Support the people telling them children should be made to conform or face the consequences.

One of these options perpetuates the inequalities in society and the other reduces them.

Why anyone would choose to support inequality and bullying is totally beyond me.

Well said, Ice.

And this is a great thread for updating the imaginary spreadsheet - because frankly, if you think it's okay as an adult to snigger at a small child engaging in dressing up and imaginative play... well you're an arsehole.

I could not be further from north London. What a lot of nonsense.

Way north of North London here. During recent world book day "boy in a dress " was the big trend.
You might get a second look but it's live and let here.

I live a good couple of hundred miles north of north London and I don't have an anti-Disney agenda. I loved Disney princesses and all things pink and sparkly as a child. I also loved Lego, pirates, dinosaurs and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I grew up a feminist, wearing pink and loving Belle from Beauty and the Beast didn't damage me at all. I'd have loved Frozen and would have adored an Elsa dress if I was four years old now. So I'd never discourage a daughter of mine from pink, glitter or Disney. Equally, I'd be happy for her to love Spider-Man or something stereotypical of boys' interests. My son isn't into pink and doesn't wear dresses. My point is, at pre school age in particular, I don't get why anyone would care if he did.

Ear piercing and make up on kids is a different issue and an attempt to blur the boundaries of a discussion in which people are unable to defend or even coherently articulate WHY a boy in an Elsa dress is so offensive to them.

Dressing up in settings at home or on book days is great. Great for adults and kids.

However if you are really saying that a school age boy (4) who often dresses as a disney princess at school drop offs doesn't stand a good chance of being teased and bullied when they start school then you are seeing life as it should be and not as it really is.

I would also see a parent who allows this as doing it to look right on and trendy rather than about supporting a child making choices.

I round judge the parent as frankly a bit of a twat.

Oh yay, it's bingo.

"stands a good chance of being teased and bullied"
"life as it should be and not as it really is"
"doing it to look right on and trendy"
"a bit of a twat"

Pyjamas, I can't speak for every parent but as we know (from her and others saying it a thousand times), the OP here is NOT trying 'to look right on and trendy' but is in fact just 'supporting a child making choices.'

If you were among those pointing and sniggering, or even among those thinking it was OK to point and snigger, I'd judge you right back.

Pyjamas would you feel the same about a girl in a Spider-Man suit?

Or, taking the focus off fancy dress, what about a boy wearing a Frozen t-shirt and a girl wearing a Spider-Man t-shirt?

So does everyone who thinks the OP is in the wrong think that "boys can't wear Elsa costumes, if they do they'll be treated cruelly" is just some kind of unchangeable truth that can't be challenged in any way without seeming like some kind of show-offy twunt? We should just bow down to it because well, one person can't do anything, and you don't want your child to suffer, do you, and people will think you're a twat, and might as well give in now, and IT'S JUST HOW IT IS.

(hoorah, I am having flashbacks to college lectures about Althusser and internalized ideology, delivered by a cheerful Glaswegian with a story about kids asking "why can't girls be bus drivers" - "well, they just can't")

Nope I don't point and snigger. I am not dm ignorant twat.

However the simple fact is a boy who habitually dresses in a floaty disney dress out of a play setting so out and about will be teased by other children. Especially older ones and his class mates as he gets older.

It is generally and unfortunately different and more tolerated got girls to be tom boys

I really really wish it was not true.

But it really really is.

However if you are really saying that a school age boy (4) who often dresses as a disney princess at school drop offs doesn't stand a good chance of being teased and bullied

No, I'm saying anyone who teases and bullies a child should be sanctioned. It should be on the aggressor not to bully, not the victim to conform to avoid bullying.

If your child is different, and is being teased or bullied, you should stand up for them, tell them the bully is wrong. Not say "well dear, curly hair/no lipstick/body hair isn't acceptable so let's straighten/get you some/shave and that will solve the problem. I'm only helping you fit in to protect you"

Same as its on the rapist not to rape. Not on women to hide their bodies so they don't provoke.

Bullying, teasing, making fun, are wrong. End of. Whatever social rule or other transgression you think your victim has made.

I agree it's cruel and unfair but it's not the job of a 4 year old child to change society.