To wonder why so many people on trains become selfish.

[Sickoffrozen]

I went to London on Tuesday this week on business and the train was extremely full with some people standing.

Why do people think it's acceptable to sit in one seat and put their bags on the one next to them in the obvious hope that no one will ask them to move it? There were also some kids sprawled out on two seats, asleep.

The train manager twice made announcements to ask for people to move bags from seats yet some people still didn't. There was plenty of room in the overhead storage so no real excuses.

Why is having someone sat next to you so bad?

Are these people as selfish in all aspects of their life do you think?

What enrages me is having to ask. If a train is full and people are standing, surely a considerate person would immediately move their bag and not wait to be asked.

How would you all react to a 'no'? As in not to move the bag or the sleeping child? I personally wouldn't object to moving either of these objects however I know some who'd argue with those that did ask.

As a very regular traveller on long distance trains, often at tricky times of day & late at night, I see where Caspian is comg from. Of course no-one can "give out" seats on public transport (except the TOCs when you book), but I just thought s/he was tongue in cheek about the ideal of travelling. So I think other posters should chill.

We all like our space. I think the posters who say "Of course I put my bags on the seat next to me if there's space. And if the carriage fills up, I move them" are saying exactly common sense.

And really, it's just as arrogant to deliberately choose the seat which has bags on it, when others are available. Who are you to teach another passenger a lesson?

And I'd love to construct one of those diagrams (Vann?) that shows the overlap between people getting all up in arms about bags etc, and those who are vociferous about the "difficulties" of folding buggies, or keeping children relatively quiet and non-intrusive.

We all like our space, and we all think that our space has reasonable priority, and our reasons for wanting our space are reasonable. And I think we're all fairly reasonable in both those assumptions. When my needs/wants and another's needs/wants conflict, then we need to think about the principles of politeness: thinking of others' needs.

I'll probably get flamed for this, but I really don't see the point of being needlessly bolshy about this kind of thing.

Not by me! What you say is common sense. I suspect that some people don't travel regularly, or don't travel the mix of long distance/commuter journeys of over an hour that a lot of us have to make.

I don't know about others, but if I'm doing my normal commute, it's 20 minutes in a local train. I don't mind standing, I tend not to have work to do, it's just down time.

But at least once a week I do longer journeys for work -- often 3-4 hours. Because of workload etc etc I have to make that time work for me, so that's when I book a seat, at a table, set up lap top etc. If it's the middle of the day, there mayn't be anyone next to me and so of course I put my briefcase on the seat next to me. If someone comes along who's booked that seat next to me then of course I move my stuff.

It's just common sense.

Where I get annoyed is when bits of a longer route are also a commuter short route (out of New Street is a prime example). Those commuters rarely pay any attention to seat reservations or the Quiet Zone requirements. Vair annoying.

Muminhants who said I was in the quiet carriage? There's no such thing on my jam packed commuter train, where standing is pretty much the norm unless you're the first or second through the doors. And if I want to phone home for whatever reason, it usually won't wait for the 35 - 50 minutes it may take to get there. I'm usually checking my son has got home safely from clubs or telling my husband to start cooking dinner (he is a shite cook). I'm damned if me and my kids will eat late cos someone gets pissy over a phone call in a public place.

As a regular commuter I've never thought I'd find my own personal space on a train, tube, or bus. It's not really what they're known for...

I commute 5 days a week from Ayrshire to Glasgow, it's not bags on seats that annoy me (I have never had anyone refuse if I have had to ask) but people refusing to use the floor level luggage racks for large rucksack & suitcases (there are 2 stations on the route which serve airports) so this is fairly common. They just plonk them down in the floor space between 2 seats which are no longer useable. I have pointed out where the racks are & asked for them to be moved a couple of times people have refused. I simply wait for the ticket collector & ask them to deal with it , they threw someone off the train who refused & became verbally aggressive about it. There is a clue in the name public transport a little bit of cooperation goes a long way & I still make my teenage sons offer their seats if it is very busy & I do it myself if someone looks like they need it more than I do.

No one should be put in a position where they have to ask so done to move their bags, so they can sit down. Just don't put your bags on a seat in the first place - it's f&@king rude.

My "favourites" are the types who want a table because they are a family and do not grasp that although I am travelling alone I am not bound to move from the seat at the table which I either reserved or just got to before they did. I prefer a table seat because I don't like a seat-back in my face any more than you or your children do.

You would all hate me then, I travel long distance with 3 small children regularly. But I fold the buggy without be asked or complaining, and all the children (including the under 5's) are bought a ticket so they have a seat reservation. Can't always avoid all the arguments on a 6 hour journey, but I do my best, honest!

And I buy my tickets 12 weeks in advance to ensure a table reservation. I wont be giving any of those seats up as they are all paid for, even if you do think my wriggly toddler should be on my lap so you can have a table.

The older I get, the less I care - recently on way back from Waterloo with DD3 (7yo so hardly a screaming baby), I politely asked, "may we sit here" - woman opposite (one of those 4-seater-with table bits) begrudgingly moved her bag from the opposite seat, mumbled something about children and stormed off! FFS it may be a half fare but I've paid to travel just as you have love! (The mean part of me was hoping she didn't get a seat elsewhere, the generous part of me wonders if she was immune-compromised and paranoid about child germs!). For what it's worth, we often go to London so DD was quite happily doing her word search, just asking the odd question.

We do avoid the quiet zone when we can, though one time we were in there she did make several people giggle (she was about 6) when someone was bleating on their phone Dom-Joly-style, and she asked why she had to be quiet when the grown-ups could shout...

I commute every day and am lucky to get a seat and wouldn't expect one for my stuff. Some people seem really put out when politely asked to move their bags and surprised that they can't have two seats on a packed commuter train.

I hate reserved seating on rush-hour trains with a firey passion. There are nowhere near enough seats to go around and reserving all the seats for those with advanced tickets (sold at a heavy discount) seems wrong. Many people who are going up just for the day could choose to have a day out elsewhere or use other means of transport and would do so if they they had the same odds of standing as I do. It's just us poor saps who commute everyday and have to pay way over the odds without reserved seats and no other means of getting to work that are the lowest priority for available seating - because we're a captive market.

I frequently sit in reserved seats, because people often don't turn up and I'd rather take a chance at having a seat than definitely have to stand the whole way. It adds an extra layer of stress to an already stressful commute, but desperate times.... I will move if asked and won't be huffy about it, despite my inner resentment - though I expect the question to be polite.

If there are plenty of free seats then fair enough, I won't ask someone to move their bag / let me through. But if choice is limited, then I'll go for a seat-with-bag / inaccessible seat because I'm happy to ask someone to move their stuff for me or climb over a group to get to the seat in the corner.
So it seems right to leave the clear seats for people who might not feel comfortable making the request for whatever reason.

I have to admit I do this all the time. I get the train a lot and after having smelling old men, and quite frankly some utter weirdos sit next to me, i'd had enough.

I prefer to stand in the little hall bit if I'm honest.
Once made a 5 hour train journey standing/sitting in the hall part with my then young DD and DP.
We are off to London tomorrow, with a reserved table seat, yipee!

But back to point, I don't feel any anger to bag seat people, I usually use a shoulder bag so when I sit the bag is on my lap. But I don't mind standing so if people want their oh so tired bag to rest, fine by me.

Oh yes and people who sit on the outside seat, so you have to ask them to move so you can sit on the remaining seat next to the window. Then you have to ask them to move again, when you need to get off. Why?!?

I'm an aisle sitter, because on the rare occasion I have to use public transport, I feel very claustrophobic. If I'm in the window and someone is sitting next to me I feel trapped, and get very anxious. I need to feel I can get up and move if I have to. It's not necessarily logical, but it's how I feel. I also have to sit in aisle seats on planes (and will pre-book to get one).

I have no problems asking someone to move their bags, but once a woman did actually say 'no' to me. I had 4 day old dd2 in a sling and was holding dd1 by the hand. I politely asked her if I could sit down and she said 'my bag is there'.
I said 'I have a four day old baby here....and does your bag have a ticket?' A very kind man jumped up from his seat and gave it to me, so me & the dds sat with a woman and her dog.
Yes, we were going to London, it wasn't rush hour and it is only 40 minutes, but, having given birth four days previously, I really was not in the mood to stand.

Aisle sitters, do you do that annoying thing when someone wants the window seat next to you of being very smiley but then merely moving your knees a miniscule amount to the side forcing them to climb over? Or di the same if they need to get off before you? I prefer the aisle but I always stand up to let others in or out, or sometimes I just move in to the window and let them have the aisle since that is clearly the easiest solution for all. If I have to climb over someone it's often hard on a moving vehicle with handbag and laptop bag so they risk getting bag in the face. Just stand up ffs!

I commute into London every day and have never had a problem. Excuse me or may i sit down please is all it takes for a bag to be moved. And if you want to sit next to me, absolutely fine.

Other people smell, or many people think they do. One of the great difficulties there is in getting people out of cars, incidentally.

Exactly SocksRock - actual reservation trumps self-perceived need. So does reservation by getting your backside there first.

Age isn't a problem, but I've had many a old man/woman sit next to me on the train that utterly stink, I don't have a problem in saying no and refusing to move my bag, I just don't want anyone to sit next to me and I that's that.

twoplus you refuse to move your bag? I don't believe you I'd put it on the floor for you.