Aibu to think that attachment/ gentle/ natural parents minimise how dangerous sleep deprivation is

[ScrumpyBetty]

I have thought about writing this post for a while, and I want to write it in a respectful way, this is in no way about 'bashing' anyone for the parenting choices that they identify with or choose to make,

If you are an AP and you co- sleep, breastfeed on demand, choose gentle sleep training- I think brilliant! You are very lucky and well done for making it work for you.

When I was an anxious new mother, I identified very much with some of the things I read on AP websites and wanted to AP.
However after 18 months of waking up every night 6 or more times, I was at breaking point. Seriously sleep deprived, crying every day, anxious, depressed- I could go on. I reached out to the AP community for help and advice and was told to continue to use gentle sleep training methods such as the No Cry Sleep Solution, continue to Wait It Out, and definitely not to do controlled crying or CIO. But by this point we had been using the NO Cry Sleep Solution for months, gentle methods were not working!
I read loads of stuff on AP blogs and was given advice such as: let the housework slide and sleep when your baby sleeps! Try yoga or meditation to relax a bit more! Etc. loads of articles warned me about the perils of sleep training.

Eventually we did do controlled crying, and it wasn't that brutal, it was 3 nights of leaving DS to cry for no more than 5 mins at a time. He was 18 months and it was the best thing we ever did. I cannot stress how much of a better mum I am now that I am getting regular sleep!

I know I will be told I was silly to listen to AP advice when it quite clearly wasn't working for me, but I know loads of new mums who do AP and who do treat it like gospel, and who think that controlled crying is abhorrent.
I think that sleep deprivation is abhorrent, and if I hadn't done CC I may well have had a nervous breakdown, so what good would all that gentle parenting do then?
AIBu to think that AP/ natural parenting etc websites minimise the dangers of sleep deprivation- which are depression, mood swings, memory loss, a whole host of health problems? I agree that sleep training methods such as CC should be a last resort but if they need to be used then they need to be used surely?

I believe in strong attachment for babies and toddlers but I also believe in the importance of a good sleep routine and not allowing a child to get used to sleeping with parents (or it becomes impossible to break the cycle), surely both things are not mutually exclusive.

Ah yes Timetoask, the rate of 40 year olds unable to sleep without mummy is soaring world wide. It's positively alarming!!

ScrumpyBetty just to support you: I read your OP with tears in my eyes. This was EXACTLY my experience. I spent most of the first 9 months of DS's life feeling close to suicidal (yes, have been there with calling the Samaritans at 2 am!) and terrorising myself with reading stuff online saying you should be baby-led and the baby would sleep through the night in its own time. Yes, we co-slept, BF on demand, DH took loads of time off work to share the burden of the nights, and I still couldn't cope. Whatever I had read when pregnant didn't prepare me for a baby who woke 10 times a night, for months on end, and was often awake (unhappy) for hours at a time. With the best will in the world I couldn't manage to keep going on, and on, and feel even somewhat happy and positive each morning (that's an understatement).

We didn't do CC, we have been working with a sleep consultant and DS is (touch wood) much improved and only waking a couple of times a night, briefly, now, and I can cope with that. Already I am forgetting quite how horrific the sleep deprivation was (I had terrible insomnia too by the time DS was 10 weeks old - at its worst was getting 3 broken hours' sleep every other night, and on the alternate nights, none at all) - which scares me, I don't want to forget, because I need to factor it in to our decision whether to have another DC, and so as not to minimise what other parents are going through.

I think you've had a hard time on this thread. I am amazed that there is not more and better public discussion of the health issues caused by non-sleeping babies. And especially, recognition that what worked for you may well not work for someone else, and suggestions that are apparently universal ('just co-sleep') can be very upsetting for people who are already in a very fragile place.

Depends what you mean by "AP" surely?

Not really, no. Unless you're defining attachment parenting as 'responsive parenting as practised by a primary caregiver who themself has a secure attachment style'.

In which case you have something of a circular argument on your hands.

Lovely post frater I'm so glad things are improving for you.

"not allowing a child to get used to sleeping with parents (or it becomes impossible to break the cycle)"

My children sleep in their own beds in their own rooms now after co sleeping for years so clearly not impossible :)

I think parents should just choose what works for them and be happy with it and try not to criticise other people's choices. I couldn't be an AP it's just not in my nature, I couldn't cope with being smothered by a baby or child's presence all day every day.
My dc had strict routines from the very first day because that's what worked for me. I don't think it would suit everybody and I don't think it is a better method than anything else it's just what worked for me. Most people weren't even aware of my choice tbh as I didn't advertise it and the few people who commented that dd's or ds's were always asleep on the school run would be told I was just lucky or they had only just dropped off rather than me discussing my choices.

Surely the definition of AP is "responsive parenting"

Surely the definition of AP is "responsive parenting"

Yes. But the parent's intention or desire to produce a secure child will have no effect on the child's actual attachment style. Because this is only predicted by the parent's attachment style, not by what they're trying to achieve.

Disagree timetoask about bad sleeping habits. We coslept with DS for a while, and he has always been welcome to come in whenever he wants and he hasn't come in for about six months now (nearly 4). He prefers to wake up, get himself dressed and play with his toys until his lazy mother wakes up.

I think there are two possible explanations when it comes to "parenting techniques that work":

• option 1: many of the people who describe what worked for them (that they say has not caused any long term issues) are wrong and blinded to reality, and there is indeed one perfect method or approach.

• option 2: actually in real life different baby/parent personality combinations need different approaches and many things work (and we should all be a bit kinder to each other). Also the human animal is a robust species that can withstand many and varied upbringings.

I think option 2 is more likely to be true.

As an AP mum (whatever that means these days, my 2 are getting old) I co slept with my DD last night after awful dental stuff & I'm doing the same tonight.

I also parent an AS child who wants the least amount of contact possible, it makes her happy I am nowhere near her.

I will never judge another mum for her parenting choices, I know how hard it is x

Surely the definition of AP is "responsive parenting"

No, it appears to be a lot more specific than that
www.askdrsears.com/topics/parenting/attachment-parenting/attachment-parenting-babies

Really OTheHugeManatee - the parent's attachment style is the only thing that effects the child, no other factors?

I didn't follow any theories. We just co-slept because I'm bone idle plus I loved getting all-night cuddles. Sorry it didn't work for you.

"I always find it a bit weird on mumsnet how everyone seems prepared to totally disregard the SIDS advice re co-sleeping (which is far riskier in my view) but stick to the "6 months in your room" advice rigourously, when the supposed risk/benefit is actually quite negligible. "

The research was seriously flawed and mis-reported.

Manatee what do you mean by the parent's attachment style - just their own personality and behaviour wrt affection, interaction etc? I'm asking not to challenge you because if that's right I'd like to know more about it.

As a very introverted person myself who likes to get a break from physical contact and chat, I worry in case that isn't good for my DC - even though we are very physical and affectionate, I try to listen to them etc. Is your attachment style something you can construct / create or are you just stuck with who you are IYSWIM?

I don't do much in the way of parenting, attachment or otherwise. However I did use independent midwives (because they would do out of hours visits that would not impinge on work) have home births ( because that way I got to make the important decisions) and always co-slept and did extended BF (because it was easier). I didn't ever feel it was making me sleep deprived and honestly would not want to spend evenings enforcing a 'bedtime routine' because it sounds like hard work.

I've Kinda skimmed the thread but like many others I did AP with dc2 because it got me more sleep... It really was as selfish as that :) But it doesn't work for everyone...I imagine if you had a baby with reflux they'd hate the lying down feeding thing. Plus, despite being nominally AP, I am terrified of most of the Internet AP communities. They are anything but gentle with other parents!! So I'd steer clear of those blogs and fbook groups OP...Nothing but grief to be found..

which research Disappointed?

I think that every parent needs to make their own decisions (preferably after reading very widely about the different options

I think parents should do what feels right without reading widely! You & your child are the only experts that count - certainly not Internet randoms.

As a parent of older children I can smile wryly at the breast beating over baby sleeping - except the OP shows the certainty of some parenting zealots can really upset and undermine new mothers.

Forget books & theories, do what works for you & your family & all will be well

manatee you rock

I Breast fed and still co sleep
It gave me the opportunity to sleep more as I was too lazy to put her back to bed! However you are right, if I hadn't slept well I would have suffered and been ill.

I don't think I've ever read such a load of utter bollocks in my life as I have read on here.

My oldest is 16. There were no forums, no fancy titles, no parenting or weaning "names". I fed her on demand, got her into a routine and yes she had a bed time because as a single mum I had to go back to work when she was six months old.

My youngest was a nightmare, she slept through from four. That's years not months. Cc did not work with her, nor did co sleeping. She just didn't sleep for linger than two hours and it nearly killed me with sheer exhaustion. And no her useless father did sod all to help.

My kids have been fed when they wanted, cuddled when they wanted, had time to sit on the floor and play, I talked to them, socialised with them and have just basically learned as I've gone along.

I don't think there's a right way or a wrong way, just a way that works for you. And stop giving everything fucking labels. It's just being a parent bringing up a child. Putting a label on stuff doesn't make one parent better than another, it just makes you sound really up yourselves.