Aibu to think that attachment/ gentle/ natural parents minimise how dangerous sleep deprivation is

[ScrumpyBetty]

I have thought about writing this post for a while, and I want to write it in a respectful way, this is in no way about 'bashing' anyone for the parenting choices that they identify with or choose to make,

If you are an AP and you co- sleep, breastfeed on demand, choose gentle sleep training- I think brilliant! You are very lucky and well done for making it work for you.

When I was an anxious new mother, I identified very much with some of the things I read on AP websites and wanted to AP.
However after 18 months of waking up every night 6 or more times, I was at breaking point. Seriously sleep deprived, crying every day, anxious, depressed- I could go on. I reached out to the AP community for help and advice and was told to continue to use gentle sleep training methods such as the No Cry Sleep Solution, continue to Wait It Out, and definitely not to do controlled crying or CIO. But by this point we had been using the NO Cry Sleep Solution for months, gentle methods were not working!
I read loads of stuff on AP blogs and was given advice such as: let the housework slide and sleep when your baby sleeps! Try yoga or meditation to relax a bit more! Etc. loads of articles warned me about the perils of sleep training.

Eventually we did do controlled crying, and it wasn't that brutal, it was 3 nights of leaving DS to cry for no more than 5 mins at a time. He was 18 months and it was the best thing we ever did. I cannot stress how much of a better mum I am now that I am getting regular sleep!

I know I will be told I was silly to listen to AP advice when it quite clearly wasn't working for me, but I know loads of new mums who do AP and who do treat it like gospel, and who think that controlled crying is abhorrent.
I think that sleep deprivation is abhorrent, and if I hadn't done CC I may well have had a nervous breakdown, so what good would all that gentle parenting do then?
AIBu to think that AP/ natural parenting etc websites minimise the dangers of sleep deprivation- which are depression, mood swings, memory loss, a whole host of health problems? I agree that sleep training methods such as CC should be a last resort but if they need to be used then they need to be used surely?

Hobnong some Internet forum folk are dangerous bullies tbh. Hysterical cries of "child abuse" or "damage" come out if anyone doesn't toe their line/tick their boxes (often full of inaccurate facts and spellings, and opinions on who should be allowed children). Not just not having the expertise for other approaches. It is notable on some mum/mom blogs and FB pages - especially those about feeding, sleep or baby wearing.

I've had to be very selective of which blogs I follow for my own mental wellbeing. Badass Breastfeeder, for example, actively recognises the behaviour and challenges this tendency in AP comments sections. Some actively encourage it.

Although "don't read the comments" is often a good mantra with blogs.

Notso YY ... almost every parenting "way" has common sense disclaimers.

And almost every comment section ignores it!

I wonder if these commenters are as holy in real life. Based on some people I know ... no. They're normal in real life but project an impossible, idealised version when they talk to new mums or post on FB.

Which to my mind doesn't help anyone!
It stressed me out when pregnant to hear I'd be condemned if I took baby's precious moments for vanity (according to one friend ... who is always made up) and another who told me I wouldn't be looking after her "enough" if I had time to eat! !

So I didn't eat! I cleaned as my newborn slept in her sling or on her mat (she likes this! It's a furry mat! ) because otherwise I was a selfish, shallow "why have kids if you don't want to care for them" distant mum.
Just ignore them ...? Easy to say when you're not mid pregnancy hormones or baby blues.

Thanks Manatee, I did have a google last night. I also worry because I had an abusive childhood - but OTOH, have had a lot of psychotherapy!

Thanks for bringing some much-needed science to the thread. I think what frustrates me about a lot of parenting theories and hardline advocates is the lack of evidence.

eg Here is some common sense from the site...
-Have dates, babysitters are ok
-Don't leave it all up to mum to do the parenting

www.askdrsears.com/news/sears-family-blog/balancing-attachment-parenting-marriage

Yet I bet if this question were posted on some forums - even MN - someone would say "why have kids if you don't want to spend time with them" and so forth. Or proudly state they've not been out without their kid for 10 years or something.

Hobnong some Internet forum folk are dangerous bullies tbh. Hysterical cries of "child abuse" or "damage" come out if anyone doesn't toe their line/tick their boxes (often full of inaccurate facts and spellings, and opinions on who should be allowed children). Not just not having the expertise for other approaches. It is notable on some mum/mom blogs and FB pages - especially those about feeding, sleep or baby wearing.

Well I think the best advice should be "Don't blindly follow people on the internet unless their name is hobNong because she sounds pretty cool and like she'd make a worthy leader."

and squizita having a DD at 19 had the benefit of not really knowing many other parents to give me any advice. I read a few books but blogs and forums weren't really a thing (or if they were we were too poor for a computer).

I think that almost every parent does what they believe is best for them and their child. However it seems many make the mistake of forgetting the for them and their child bit, and skip straight to them doing the best thing for all children.

I'm always intrigued by how certain parenting aspects can become the be all and end all to some parents. I'm a member of a group on FB regarding dressing your child in specific type/style of clothing. I'm in it mostly for buying and selling but some take it so seriously and the bunfights over a supermarket T-shirt make for fascinating and baffling reading.

I just think as a mother you need to do what you feel right, I did some AP, I did some CC, I babywore and I had a pram. Sometimes I cosleep sometimes I dont.

I think any parent trying to do their best for their child and themselves are doing great.

Sleep deprivation is horrible but we all go through it, whichever parenting method is chosen.

Anecdotally I have encountered many AP parents who had quite unhappy upbringings themselves, and who have subsequently had trouble forming happy stable relationships with others, and are adamant that they won't pass this on to their DC. This was certainly what led me to take this approach with our parenting- both DH and I have strained relationships with our families, don't have many close long term friends, and prior to having psychotherapy and meeting one another we had difficulties in a romantic relationships. After having therapy I feel that our relationship is strong and stable, and we are really improving how we relate to friends and families, but when we had DC we worried that we wouldn't instinctively know how to interact healthily with our children. Would we automatically copy our parents' damaging behaviour? Would we revert to their behaviour in times of stress?

Manatee makes great points about the limitations of consciously interacting with your child in a certain way, as so many of your interactions are instinctive and subtle.

I found therapy really useful in changing my automatic negative thinking patterns, and ten years ago I certainly couldn't have imagined feeling as secure and happy as I do in my marriage. I am hoping that this will make us parent our DC differently.

I did find the AP books useful in giving me confidence to ignore the Making a Rod For Your Own Back brigade when my DC were tiny. Perhaps the current popularity for AP is pushing back against the brigade who act as though your young baby is a wild animal who needs to be forcibly tamed! My record was being told at 1.5 WEEKS that I shouldn't attend to my crying baby lest I make a Rod For My Own Back!!

Yes those at the other extreme can also be bullies. One women who I met at antenatal class, when we met up later with our babies, told me off for being "too in love" with my DS - because I was sitting with him facing me and interacting with him! He was 3 weeks old.

I do think anyone who not only follows an extreme version of parenting, but tried to impose it on others and tells them off for not doing it their way, may be using "being a great parent who knows it all" to fulfil a need for validation. It's something they can be an expert on with no need for a training course, evidence or experience - just read a few books and websites.

I could have written this OP. I've desperately tried AP approaches but it's got to the point where if I don't get more sleep I'm at danger of crashing the car and killing all of us (which wouldn't be very 'gentle'!). By letting DS cry a little for 5 minutes or less we've got down to 4-5 wake ups a night (from every 30 minutes)

I think that might be a part of the reason dangerouslydevotedtoGu, but essentially I think it's just that baby books sell a whole load better if they declare they have 'the answer'. The same probably applies to blog readership too. I wonder if a part of it is declining levels of people who belong to an organised religion, a new certainty with new prophets, a sense of community etc? (Slightly tongue in cheek, but might be a possibility?)

I couldn't have been a decent parent had I not followed my rigid routines tbh. I need time and space away from my dc so as not to feel suffocated. I had and still have the patience of a saint but that was knowing that they would be napping in so many hours and would be in their own bed and sleeping through from six weeks old.
To me the thought of being permanently attached to my baby or toddler leaves me cold. I don't particularly enjoy sitting cuddling babies or children anyway and have always enjoyed it more once they were walking and talking.
Mine are adults now in the most part and I have close and loving relationships with them all and they are all warm and sociable people so they don't appear to have suffered from never having slept in my bed, never having been carried in a sling etc etc.

I was very lucky to have babies before my friends did so we knew no one with babies so I just did what felt right and read a few books and made up my own mind and family left it to me to decide what to do.

I do think it depends on the child too. Our first was up a lot every night - I mean every night. I was reading my diary from that time - her first 3 months and she would be awake when we got back from work around 6 ish until about 2 at least every night so we'd do shifts (I breastfed and expressed for when at work). She did fairly often sleep with us but I find it hard to sleep next to a baby so the carry cot was just next to the bed mostly although given how much time she fed every night I am sure just about every night at that age she was in bed with us. back at work full time though when she was 2 weeks although I am sure she was "attached" to her mother, father and nanny at that stage which is lovely.

once you have a second you tend to need more routines. I found the twins easiest as they are the same stage so you can have a bed and bath routine and by that stage we definitely liked a time when we knew children were upstairs every night even if it meant up and down stairs to them because they would not settle.

Certainly when I am round a baby of mine or toddler I like the attachment so we certainly were a cuddling, breast feeding sling carrying family with a lot of touching.

Agree with other posters about how AP or at least the co-sleeping element can save your sleep. We also have a baby who would scream until she passed out if left to CIO. Even PUPD left her traumatised and ultra panicky at bedtime for the next little while. Settling her in the middle of the night takes forever as she is so panicky about being left. Co-sleeping when necessary has minimised her crying and thus my crying as I can go to work and function. I'd rather have less space in my bed than not be in it at all!

I think you only find out what sort of parent you're going to be (or what sort of child you have) as you go along. As a first time Mum, I really wanted to follow a routine etc but when my baby was born (and ever since) it became clear that she needed a lot of attachment parenting. I'm only sad it took me so so long to realise!

I would hazard a guess that the majority of parents follow a multitude of 'styles' which they adapt to suit their own lifestyle and children's personalities.

There is no universal one-size-fits-all way to parent. We try to treat our children equally but does not necessarily mean the same. One of ours hated co-sleeping and even if she needed comforting in the night would always return to her own bed from being a toddler. Another, we had our work cut out to encourage her to stay in her own bed. Which we did to preserve our own sanity and relationship - she was in Infant school by then!

I'm often, internally, quite cynical of anyone is claims they run their house/ children like a military operation. I have routines, certain non-negotiable elements (e.g. Teeth brushing) but also those things that are more flexible (e.g. Being dressed for breakfast during the holidays).

Oh, and I'm known for being strict but fair!

Why is it that some people suddenly think they are parenting experts once they have children? I'm not saying that about anyone on this thread but in my real life I've had a few tuts and sighs and 'you're making a rod for your own back' (which I will use to shove up your backside if you don't piss off), since dd was born.

The worst people to start with were actually my bil and sil, who I know really struggled when they first had dc. They backed off pretty quickly once they realised we were coping on our own, but they weren't being helpful to start, more know-it-ally. Why do people do that? I was warned about it on here so I know it's common.

hob I think people who really struggled mean well. They finally worked it out and want to pass on their tips to you, to save you time and stress. But they forget that each child is different, with different needs, reactions and personalities. And that parents are different - what feels 'right' to one will feel false and wrong to another. Truth is, we all have to find our own way. So often what looks from the outside like not-very-good parenting is the absolute best a person can do with the circumstances they've been dealt.