To think more outrage is needed over Tory threat to child benefit?

[flower68]

According to papers today Tory planned welfare cuts can't be achieved without further cuts to child benefit. George Osborne has refused to rule it out apparently. Such a cut would be massively controversial, hurt lower income families and is potentially politically toxic for the Tories. So why is no-one pushing them for a straight answer?

You really are a goady one aren't you keepitsimple.

Well, I'll keep it simple for you. People can't always live where they can afford to and transport in. A large number shop workers/people low paid jobs in London are on some sort of HB as they can't afford to live there on full time wages. Don't support them and those jobs don't get done, or they get done by immigrants who are prepared to accept lower standards of living for short periods of time (bet you wouldn't like that either).

Life is rougher for poorer people? Yes it is, and we live in society which seeks to prevent cycles of poverty occurring due to accident of birth, not you are born poor so that's your fault.

Your I'm alright Jack attitude stinks, also lets just be clear, your tax cut won't make as much difference to you, as the cut in benefits does to them. But you couldn't ever have someone benefiting from something could you.

Has the wealth of the nation really increased in the last 5 years, as a result of all the cuts? Have the cuts actually achieved anything at all? We are all constantly lied to about figures. As far as I can see, in the last 5 years poverty has increased; homelessness has increased; suffering has increased; selfish, greedy and judgmental attitudes have increased; division has increased. It is time we were ashamed of all this.

And if you don't want to be part of a society where we all help each other and if you don't want to live in a fair society, then piss off somewhere else.

The problem with the privileged is that they want all the benefits of living in a society, but just for people like them.

All of you on here preaching bootstrap toryism are utterly, utterly stupid. You have bought the myth of people having babies to get benefits, of benefit queens living it up on the social while you poor downtrodden souls get mere crumbs from the table.

You may have worked hard to get where you are, but not many of you started with major disadvantages and many have benefited from the welfare state in the past. Yet you now want to pull up the ladder behind you because you are entitled to keep more of your money?

I am disgusted with supposedly intelligent people arguing about stuff like this. If you really buy it, vote for the nasty party like the cretins you are. But when you need help, when something bad happens to you and state aid would be greatly beneficial. Don't come crying to us.

I thought it greatly amusing during the floods last year that many wealthy land owners and home owners were crying out for state help for something that had happened to them through no fault of their own. They would have denigrated others doing the same thing.

that was a terrible idea. I am not a Tory fan.

Labour never replaced the stock either when they came into power, very few houses have been built compared to what has been sold off. They are apparently building 2400 affordable house on 2 sites in my borough on old industrial land, ones going up now. Instead of building a full council estate some are to be bought outright, some are on a shared ownership deal and some are council houses, they look quite nice actually

Ludoole

I cant get carers allowance as i earn over £100

The earnings threshold for CA has just been raised to £110pw. It's a taxable benefit though so it affects tax credits. I'd suggest contacting Carers UK for a benefits check. Sorry to hear about your dad and DP.

Thanks Fabled i'll look into that!

Well said longtimelurker

Hamiltoes you do realise that those not paying the HTR barely cover what they cost the nation let alone other people's CB.I work full time and pay zero tax so I'm certainly not funding anybody else's CB.

Also you do realise that those on say 1 salary of £50k will be getting less than say 2 x £25 k who get to keep their child benefit or indeed 2x £40 k.

If you are going to ask and presume like Boris Johnson that families on £50k use CB to refresh their wine cellars then I'm presuming you feel the same re those on say £30k + £10k or those on 2x £20k etc

LePetit, some on here just see the figure 50k and just think 'pay up and shut up'. I already posted up thread about the take home on 50k as actually being 36k. I also posted a link stating that the new considerations to remove CB for a family with 3dc (so a family with the same number of dc as ours) will be the universal credit threshold of 39k

What? You think a man who doesnt contribute towards his children financial is going to want them full time? Not very likely

He may not want them, but I take a wild guess that if he's lumbered with them, 99 times out of a 100, he won't deliberately neglect them so that they get taken into care.

Theoretician, if you have children, would you seriously want them to be taken away from their main carer and pushed on to a parent who doesn't want them? Would you want a child to be in that position?

I would completely agree with cutting CB, on the proviso that multiples are excluded and that fathers MUST pay for their children. Whether Self-employed, out of work, whatever. Jail time and punitive fines if they don't.

AyeAmarok, how do you suggest this will work with fathers who are out of work? Or bankrupt? Or seriously ill and disabled? Or dead?

And you do realise, don't you, that keeping a man in prison costs £40K a year? By the time you factor in a large organisation devoted to tracking down errant fathers and their means, court costs, court time, and the costs of enforcing fines, this system would cost 10 times as much as it saved.

When me and DH had children we both worked, each earning around the national average wage. Web paid our taxes and bought a house. DC1 didn't develop as expected and we discovered he had a very severe disability. I continued to work full time, paying childcare costs and getting no benefits (except child benefit as it was universal back then).
As DC1 got older his needs increased and I had to give up work. I didn't claim any benefits for the first year as I didn't realise we could. We used all of our savings paying the mortgage and ensuring we could feed the children (along with DH wage). Then a disability children's worker realised we were really struggling and told us that DC1 should be getting DLA and I should be getting carers allowance as DC1 was by far the most disabled child she had on her caseload and he certainly met the criteria. Getting DLA, carers allowance and child benefit means we can pay our mortgage, feed our children, buy specialist disability equipment and pay the increased energy bills created as a result of DC1 disability.
I am very worried about benefit changes as I cannot work at present. I need to be available during the day even on school days due to DC1 disability and I am awake for several hours each night with DC1. If I worked nights DH would need to be up for several hours each night and then he wouldn't be fit for his job in the mornings.
I would like to not need any benefits. Working full time was easier than the life I have now and it was financially rewarding.
I am worried about cuts to child benefit, carers allowance and DLA.
I hate being made to feel like a scrounger.
I was against the cuts to CB for higher earners even though they didn't affect me. I am also against these potential cuts.

Income tax makes up only a quarter of the tax revenue. The rest comprises vat and so on. The 10% highest earners in the UK earn 12 x the income of the lowest 10% but only pay about 8 or 9 X the total tax contribution. So they may be paying more in monetary terms but they are contributing less as a proportion of income.

Frankly, if you support removing universal child benefits, which is an investment in children, then, when you are old, I support those children's right to refuse to pay your pension, to operate on you if they are surgeons, to arrange medical appointments for you if they are administrators, to wipe your backside if they are carers, to deliver food to you if they provide meals on wheels. What goes around comes around.

also posted a link stating that the new considerations to remove CB for a family with 3dc (so a family with the same number of dc as ours) will be the universal credit threshold of 39k

I heard (on bbc news) that the plans could include putting child benefit in a capped benefit amount of £23k.

OP- I agree with you, more outrage is needed.

For those of you saying the benefits bill is tiny compared with other areas that need looking at, I agree too.

For those of you saying cut cb - we are talking real children here. If £20 a week to their parents means clothes and shoes then they need it.

Rather than it being given to everyone should there be a box to tick to refuse cb at this moment in time with a right to apply if hardship is experienced? Then people can be as sanctimonious as they wish if they choose to decline the benefit.

YY to employers paying a living wage and an end to zero hours contracts.

For me, they should end the free school meals for all KS1 instead. There has been plenty of threads about it on here.

I don't support CB being removed from lower income families. However, I do support changes being made to make the previous changes fair. I want to see CB being based on household income, not just removed from families who have 1 higher rate tax payer.

hamish I agree that if they were going to make any changes to child benefit it should have been based on household income and I think the start point should have been at least £80k. A single salary of £50k in certain parts of the country doesn't go very far.

This is one of the most depressing threads I've ever read. The sheer, individualism, hatred and lack of compassion astounds me. The point of the tax and benefit system is that those who can, contribute and society as a whole benefits. It's not a personal savings plan where you aim to get out what you put in.

To those who say they've done it all without benefits, really? What is a benefit? It's simply a share of that public money. Really? Have you never benefited from public spending? Never been to the doctor? Taken your children to public park? Or school?

Child benefit has an additional benefit for SAHPs as I understand it that claiming it provides state pension contributions for the SAHP. No one seems to have mentioned this. I may be wrong, and please someone set me straight if I am, but for a sahp with a 'high earning' partner they may still claim cb, but their partner must then complete a self assessment tax form to claim it back? This for me is the important bit. Cb was meant to provide state support to women, and it is mainly women, but it is now making those women dependent on the actions of their husband .

And honestly, to those trying to blame a woman left on her own with three children for not having foreseen this, this is a new low and you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves.

pauline I agree with everything that you wrote there.