To think more outrage is needed over Tory threat to child benefit?

[flower68]

According to papers today Tory planned welfare cuts can't be achieved without further cuts to child benefit. George Osborne has refused to rule it out apparently. Such a cut would be massively controversial, hurt lower income families and is potentially politically toxic for the Tories. So why is no-one pushing them for a straight answer?

Interesting point Emma

thousands of families have very finely balanced budgets. The loss of even a small amount of money can tip the balance.

And as I said before, it's the tip of the iceberg. If eligibility for Child Benefit disappears, where does that leave eligibility for Tax Credits?

Regarding charging the resident parent to chase non resident parents for non payment of child maintenance can anyone tell me what the Tories reasoning was for this charge ?

Has no one challenged them in the commons as to the absurdity of making this charge onto resident parents?
Fair enough make the non resident parent pay a charge if it's proven they trying to not pay or they fiddling their accounts but why charge the resident parent doing their job.

I would love to see someone challenge them on the fairness of this idiocy

Removing child benefit (and with it eligibility to claim tax credits) will have a massive impact on my ability to work. I am doing everything I can to support my children. You seem unable to acknowledge that.

I managed without CB or tax credits. You CHOSE to have children so why reply on benefits to support them?

"Why do you insist on asking me what I suggest?"

Because you are expecting us to take seriously your suggestion that the gov't should remove all subsidies from taxpayers during the years they have dependent children?

And yet you don't seem to comprehend that these are actual kids' lives you are talking about; mouths that need to be fed today, and can't be on their parents' wages. This reality is recognised by the government through the tax credits system.

You say we shouldn't help these kids; what do you suggest their parents should do instead to feed and house them? Assuming they don't have £36k in savings when their partner walks out/dies/becomes disabled?!

And as I said before, it's the tip of the iceberg. If eligibility for Child Benefit disappears, where does that leave eligibility for Tax Credits?

Hopefully both with be abolished.

fedupbutfine

Am i missing something? You keep going on about how the loss of tax credits would be devistating, who said anything about losing tax credits? And if it would be that bad then surely your income is so low that you wouldn't be losing CB anyway?

You do know that 50k is not what you get in the hand don't you Hamiltoes?

Mary... yawn. Childcare costs? If no one cares for my children, I can't work?

Am i missing something? You keep going on about how the loss of tax credits would be devistating, who said anything about losing tax credits? And if it would be that bad then surely your income is so low that you wouldn't be losing CB anyway?

if you don't receive Child Benefit, you have no eligibility for Tax Credit...under current rules.

rollon, if it's based on income, it will just go like it did for higher earners. If it's based on numbers of children, I'm sure existing claimants will be ok.

Thank you- that sounds sensible.

I suppose the next cut off point they'd use might be the 40% tax cut off? Or would they go lower than that? :(

Incidentally Hamiltoes*, there you go again slagging off higher earners and suggesting they have no right to complain.

I think it will more likely be the universal credit threshold. That is what I've read in the papers anyway rollon If you go with HRT threshold, you still have the two parent income vs. one parent income issue. I think they will want to avoid that again and I suspect it wouldn't generate enough money to be worth while to them anyway.

I'm not slagging off higher earners at all george, only those who earn £50,000 a year yet claim to need £20 a week, paid for by someone on half their wages.

"You CHOSE to have children so why rely on benefits to support them?"

Because that's exactly the point of the benefits system.

To support those who through unforeseen circumstances (job loss, partner loss, illness, bereavement) can't look after themselves.

And again, a child is not some sort of luxury pet. It's not like saying, you chose to have a snow leopard, provide your own meat; a child is an actual human being in their own right. It's slightly worrying you refuse to acknowledge this.
Children are the ultimate in 'can't look after themselves', and a society with any moral code at all should be looking out for them.

Also Hamiltoes, what's with the only on mumsnet comment about anyway? I read far more about lower earners than higher earners. Higher earners always get villified on here and are probably too scared to get ripped to shreds.

if you don't receive Child Benefit, you have no eligibility for Tax Credit...under current rules.

But why wouldn't you recieve child benefit? They're not talking about scrapping it (as far as I know). And if they did then it wouldn't be used as a means to deciding who gets tax credits.

Hamiltoes, it wasn't £20 a week, it was £50 for me with 3dc and you don't actually take home 50k either.

Hopefully both with be abolished.

And then what? If they are abolished some employers like mine are not going to be able to put wages up and keep their little business going. I get minimum wage, if i got no TC or CB there is no way i could live as i would get £104 a week to feed and cloth 4 of us, pay bills, dinner money, bus fare etc, if i looked for another job and had to use childcare how would i pay for it?

Removing child benefit (and with it eligibility to claim tax credits) will have a massive impact on my ability to work. I am doing everything I can to support my children. You seem unable to acknowledge that

If child benefit is restricted to "poor" families, it will still go to people who are on tax credits. (Child benefit as such could disappear altogether, but an equivalent amount for children would then be included with other benefits, including tax credits.)

Admittedly I'm only saying this because it's so clear to me that that's the logical thing to do. Whether it's clear to politicians...

For people saying it won't affect people who already have more than 2 kids now I can believe they will change it to include children already born.

They have changed the rules on so many things that affect people now and haven't given dates of the new rules it just affects people now.

E.g contribution based esa can only be claimed for a year now and if their partner earns a certain amount the person is entitled to nothing after a year. This decision has hit a lot of people

Bedroom tax affects people now

Hugely controversial but if your exDH is earning such a large amount, but is successfully avoiding CSA and was a good guy during the marriage - can't the children live with him? Then he'd have to pay for all of their day to day requirements. He will have parental responsibility so he has to have them if you can't manage.

I though tax credits were being rolled into universal credit. If they do the same for CB, surely they'll just be one claim.

And yet you don't seem to comprehend that these are actual kids' lives you are talking about; mouths that need to be fed today, and can't be on their parents' wages

I am well aware these are children's lives I am talking about and they need to be fed. If parents cannot afford to feed their children then why have them? It's up to parents to ensure their children are fed not the government. Is it not more sensible to not have children if they will grow up in poverty? Oh, but wait, it's an entitlement to bring a life into the world because people want children isn't it? Of course the Government will pay tax credits and CB to pay for them. why should the government pay for these feckless adults that have children but can't afford them?

george because its the only place where someone would have the brass neck to complain about someone earning £50,000 a year missing out on £20 a week when single people live on £57(?) a week and foodbank use is on the rise.

Its really quite shocking.