To Wonder Why Tory Voters Support a £13bn cut in benefits (inc tax credits) when hardly any tory voters even receive these benefits?

[Amylovesgalaxyeggs]

Tory voters statistically earn more and live in constituencies that have higher property values.

Tory voters statistically would be less likely to rely on tax credits or other benefits that will be cut by the party.

Aibu to wonder why a group of voters would vote for a party that wants to cut something that they don't claim. Sounds like a of reverse Robin Hood to me.

No, just the Labour defenders, like yourself - Look at Asia and the entire southern half of the globe

I can't stand the Tories. (Don't like Labour either, but, hey.) There is an issue about working people struggling to get by and welfare people being entirely financed by the state. It's unfair. However, some people, especially those with children, aren't well placed to work and childcare may cost more than they earn.

So, many taxpayers may resent welfare and vote Tory because of it. But, a great deal of nastiness, meanness and stupidity is being used as a welfare substitute.

The tory voters on hear should watch this. m.youtube.com/watch?v=EKFTtYx2OHc

Carol. I'm not even a Labour voter, I just like facts.
You still haven't mentioned how cutting Disability benefits is a good thing, you support the Tories, so why would you support this?

cutting Disability benefits

Is this absolutely going to happen, dawn?

Can you show me proof because it's a pretty serious thing and something I would like to know more about, thank you.

Dawn, you can support a party and not agree with part of their policies.mno party will be perfect so you just choose the one that meets your own stance as best as possible.

The free infant meals I feel are a terrible waste of money but there were many more things Labour did that wasted far more.

If we all voted the same we wouldn't need elections or various parties. Everyone is different.

I agree.

I dont agree 100% with everything any party does. What I do is find my priorities - and this time it's the economy - and a checklist of the best fit.

I won't focus on one item because that way you can lose the bigger picture.

I'm aware of that, littlemonsters, but it seems to me a tad heartless to support a party that really wants to make the vulnerable suffer even more than they have already done so.
Emma the change from DLA to PiP reduced benefits. The change in the mobility rules ensures that a significant amount of people will be housebound, there is a huge difference between 20 metres and 50 metres.
If you wish I can supply list after list of those who have already died.
Oh, and now there is talk of cutting benefits further. Your own party member, George Osbourne has clearly stated that he intends to cut a further 12 billion from the welfare budget, the institute for fiscal studies, among other learned institutions feel that the only way this can be done is to cut disability benefits in different ways.

Paul Johnston (IFS) explained that a freeze on working age benefits, which would itself cause increasing hardship for working age claimants, would go nowhere near saving enough cash.

“He has told us he wants to freeze working age benefits. That will save up to about £2 billion. That’s something he has told us. It’s the other £10 billion we know nothing about.

“It’s of course possible to cut benefits by £10 billion or £12 billion, if that’s what you really want to do.

“But you need to recognise especially if you’re protecting pensioners which the conservatives have said they want to do, this will involve radical changes to, for example, the housing benefit system, big cuts to child benefit, big cuts to disability benefits.

“These are the big benefits. If you want to save £10 billion you have to find radical things to do to those big parts of the benefits system.”

For claimants, especially those who are sick and disabled, the result of the next election could well have a dramatic effect on the quality of their lives for decades to come.

This too, doesn't help

caroldecker "Look at Asia and the entire southern half of the globe"

Would that be Japan or Australia which both suffered from the crisis in 2008? Or China which is a state capitalist country and doesn't run like any other economy in the world? Or Brazil which basically avoided most of it by selling its raw materials to China? You know feck all about economics so don't start, it was a GLOBAL CRISIS. Caused mainly by banks in the U.S but if the U.S falters the rest of the world does to0, seeing as its still the largest economy in the world by some shot.

I can't believe the statement earlier that cutting benefits does the poor good. What arrogance, and obviously said by someone without any experience of anything other than middle class comfort and a complete lack of understanding of the real world.

Really people arguing on here don't seem to grasp much reality, just what the Mail tells them. I can't bear that you are all so bleeding thick.

I don't support some of the Tory policies. I don't particularly want disabled benefits/services cut.

But I will vote for them this time (for the first time ever) because the main alternative is unthinkable at the moment and Ed Miliband is a moron.

I won't vote for a minor party because there's no chance they'll get into power so that puts the others out as I see it as a waste of a vote.

There are plenty of benefits they could cut for the working aged and save the required amount of money. Scrap the universal infant meals, get rid of CB for all, push UC through and remove tax credits, stop IS for single parents and just give maternity allowance for nine months like others get and make it clear that more children won't mean more benefits or be a way round switching to JSA. Where people can work, they should and to their maximum potential not just 16 hours. There is no need to target DLA if they do the above but it would take a strong party to do it.

The leaked suggestions are just ideas being floated, something that all parties will do. They may do nothing to DLA or they may decide no benefit is protected. If Labour get in they will make cuts too, they haven't ruled it out as they know its needed.

Labour made this mess of entitlement that is tax credits and the whole economy has suffered for it.

There is no need to target DLA if they do the above but it would take a strong party to do it.
The coalition did this five years ago. People are dying because of the complete fuck up that this government have created around the benefits system. People have died due to Duncan Smith's lies. Duncan Smith wasted a fortune on a system that doesn't work and still they are reducing disability payments. The only thing they may be floating is how to reduce them further. They have been reduced, considerably. As have services.

DLA soon wont exist. Everyone is being moved over to PIP, which means for a lot of people, less money. There are real cuts for the disabled currently happening. And yes, people have been ruled fit to work by ATOS, and then died from their disability several weeks later.

If you vote tory, I warn you never to fall on hard times, never to have a child that needs very expensive treatment or care, not to have elderly parents who need it either. Your meagre savings, and they are all meagre in the face of private medical care or long term unemployment, will not last. You will not get help, because the individualism you show when times are good, will bite you when times are hard. We breathe the same air and we are all mortal, lets show some care for each other rather than this race to the bottom.

They do not represent your interests no matter what face they put on it,if you are an average middle class voter you will be worse off and the wealthy will better off, they will not share it with you.

What utter alarmist, hysterical tosh, longtime!

It was Labour that left us with no money, it was Labour who spunked the cash when the times were good and this is Labour's legacy.

I'll be voting Tory, along with all the decent, hardworking , tax paying people I know. And hopefully, we'll see them back in to finsih what they started.

I'll be voting Tory, along with all the decent, hardworking , tax paying people I know.

Your social circle must be very narrow, then! What a pity! :)

I know lots of Tories. Some of them are decent, others aren't. Some of them work hard, some don't. Some of them pay tax, some don't.

I also know lots of Labour voters, as well as a few Greens and a few Lib Dems. Some of them are decent, others aren't. Some of them work hard, some don't. Some of them pay tax, some don't.

It is simply not true that hardworking tax payers are all Tory voters. I know many net contributors to the state (including myself, and including some very wealthy top rate tax payers ) who hate the Tories. It is my perception that Labour voters are more likely to be "decent" people, but I accept that this is just a reflection of my personal value system, which Labour voters (and Greens/Lib Dems) are more likely to share.

I do not know anyone who openly admits to voting UKIP, and for that, I consider myself fortunate.

Quite happy to have a narrow social circle if a wide one included non decent, lazt tax shirkers!

But if you don't know any hardworking taxpayers who don't vote Tory, your social sphere must be pitifully narrow indeed.

It explains a lot of your attitudes, though. Makes a lot of sense.

Please stop the mantra that Labour left us with no money. It shows you don't understand what happened at all and believe the propaganda.

They did not, what left us with massive debts was the banking crisis, in 2007 the deficit was the same level as in 1997, you never heard Labour complaining then that there was no money. It was the bail out and the reaction to the massive crisis (which btw stopped it being as bad as it could have been) that caused the debt to increase and business in this country benefited massively.

Hysterical Emmaswan? Not so. A point above says that we could cut all benefits. Ok then here's another approach. Lets get the 45 billion in tax that is avoided every year, lets raise capital gains tax to the 33 % it is in the USA, lets tax all income of British Citizens like the states do? While we're at it ets stop subsidising big business with grants to get them to invest in stuff that they will make profits from, lets have a land value tax like other countries..

You know why we won't? Because the tory party only represent the interests of those who benefit from all of the things above not being done. They hit the poor cause they are the easiest target and they get muppets like you to believe that they are doing well on you tax money when in fact that are laughing all the way to the bank with it.

Everyone I know Emma is a hard working tax payer, and also most vote Labour. Shirkers vs Strivers is a propaganda argument and is poor, its really the wealthy/corporate elite vs everyone else. Vote Tory and your life won't get better. Just look at this period of growth over the last two years, only the rich and big business benefit, average folk have seen their incomes fall in real terms.

longtime £45bn tax is not avoided every year, that is the tax gap - which includes several billion on smuggled tobacco, several billion from the black economy and the majority from VAT fraud - all of which are illegal and chased. Agree with raising CGT. Chasing non-doms has been done, the Conservatives raised the tax they pay to £90k from the Labour party £30k, It is fraught to push it further as, for fairness reasons, I agree with we should, but even Ed balls thinks it would cost money not raise money.
Most business grants are linked to employment levels in depressed parts of the UK and encourage investment and jobs that otherwise wouldn't happen, so actualy create jobs.
The Labour party themselves said there was no money left, they caused the UK banks to need rescuing with bad regulation, and thier response to the crisis was poor.
As for people dying after being assessed for work, this article explains the situation. Basically 10,600 people died in 2011 and thier benefits stopped. The benefits stopped either six weeks before they died to six weeks after they died. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the majority died, then had thier payments stopped.

Tax avoidance is legal, practically every self employed person will ensure they pay as little tax as possible and also put their spouse down as an employee to claim their tax allowance too and many will then take minimum wages so they can submit a WTC claim. It's not just big businesses that do it. The difference being that the large companies will be employing a lot of people who then in turn pay tax, their suppliers will also be paying tax as will the courier firms.

A land value tax just penalises those who buy their own homes, what's the point in doing that? The old fashioned poll tax was much fairer. A set rate for every adult as we all use the services and the value of a house doesn't mean you use them more or less.

You don't need to benefit to vote for a party, many vote for who they believe is best for the country and not just what they will gain themselves.

Labour Voters are like this.
Conservative Voters are like this.
Liberal Democrat Voters are like this.

Hmm. How very tribal.

So how does that work with swing voters like me? I've voted for all three at one time or another for a variety of very different reasons.

Strangely enough I've never agreed with any party's complete manifesto and I'm not sure I've ever met anyone who has regardless of which why they vote. Even those who wrote the bloody thing problem don't because its a document full of compromises.

The way I see it, is we do have to tackle national debt NOW. If we don't we make the problem worse for the future. That means in the future our society will have less for the worst off.

Its too simplistic to just tax the rich or multi nationals in a global economy. You can make steps to try and change that slowly in cooperation with other countries but you can't do it immediately and unilaterally without it actually costing you more in other ways because things are interconnected. But its very easy to make it into black and white and come out with 'take it from the rich'.

Who are 'the rich' anyway? Its all relative. A lot of people who are comfortably off, won't see themselves as well off as they still struggle with the bills every week. But in the eyes of someone else they are rolling in it and should share it out. It comes down to awareness rather than greed too. In both directions. Afterall its easy to see someone having a lot of money and think they are greedy, and not appreciate what someone has done to achieve that and what they are sacrificed to get that too.

What infuriates me about every party is the maths involved in their budget promises are not transparent and not open to scrutiny to the average person. Its very easy to make promises that appeal to voters who aren't going to seriously consider where money comes from. Apart from on trees.

I do think that Labour, the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats ALL are making promises that they can't afford and/or when they try and implement them they are going to run into very real issues when they do.

But then, to a degree that's how life works. Anyone who plans a business will find hidden costs and problems. This are called 'manifesto lies' when you talk about politics though. Which is unfair and based on unrealistic expectations from the public as much as it is about politicians wanting to further their own careers.

If people want to simplify politics to tribalism and 'good' and 'bad' well fine.

But I'll just judge them as a fuckwit. Regardless of whether they vote Labour, Conservative or Liberal Democrat. The only time I really judge people based on how they vote is if they are UKIP Voters. They deserve their own special kind of judgement.

FWIW I'm for flat rate tax with work placed benefits not being able to be used as tax offsets. This would decrease tax for all. And put a lot of accountants and inland rev people out of work. You could then raise the personal allowance threshold. And push up the minimum wage. Thus eventually removing the need for working tax credits which are the most ridiculous idea ever. Instead we would have child care subsidised in some way.

Won't happen though as too many people won't get past the idea that its unfair that those at the top pay the same tax as those lower down. Except in terms of economics it doesn't quite work out like that.